fixerupper
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In the old days we used rag bolts , or foundation bolts simple, low tech and fool proof ...
- Thread starter zzr1200
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Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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My company fits safety harness eyebolts as part of the stuff we do. We never, ever use a compressor to clear the holes out but a hand held puffer. There's good reason too. When you drill, the resultant hole has holes in the side walls as well as loose debris. An air compressor forces debris into these holes whereas what you want in there is resin. The puffer has a puff/suck action that agitates the debris, dislodging it out of the side wall holes, buoying it up and expelling it.
As proof try cleaning the drilled hole with say 100psi. Set the air tool aside then use the hand held puffer. You'll be amazed at how much more dust comes out.
In desperation, at home, when I haven't had a puffer I have of course used the blow gun and the vac with a smaller tube duct taped on the end! That's to fit the odd batten rather than something man riding.
We use btw Fisher FIS V 360S.
As proof try cleaning the drilled hole with say 100psi. Set the air tool aside then use the hand held puffer. You'll be amazed at how much more dust comes out.
In desperation, at home, when I haven't had a puffer I have of course used the blow gun and the vac with a smaller tube duct taped on the end! That's to fit the odd batten rather than something man riding.
We use btw Fisher FIS V 360S.
Revs1972
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We use the concrete screw anchors on pretty much everything we do. As we have to remove the structures afterwards. Typically M16 x 150 long. Just drill the holes deeper to allow for any excess dust to settle at bottom.
Where we do use resin, we use the Hilti Hy200 with the hilti stud, mainly as the hole doesn't need to be cleaned out. Expensive to buy, but saves a fair bit of time.
Watched someone use a dust extractor attachment when drilling holes recently, then blew them out using a puffer, with the dust firing out in clouds all over him. Had to laugh .
I'm surprised no one has come out with a decent hole cleaning system that contains the dust, what with having to use class m dust extraction etc on sites.
Where we do use resin, we use the Hilti Hy200 with the hilti stud, mainly as the hole doesn't need to be cleaned out. Expensive to buy, but saves a fair bit of time.
Watched someone use a dust extractor attachment when drilling holes recently, then blew them out using a puffer, with the dust firing out in clouds all over him. Had to laugh .
I'm surprised no one has come out with a decent hole cleaning system that contains the dust, what with having to use class m dust extraction etc on sites.
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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Is that the one where you need the special HITZ anchors to avoid cleaning the hole? Do you need to clean out if using standard studding?
Revs1972
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Where we have used it , we have used the proper Hilti Anchors. It was a job where it was specced and properly paid for.
Personally I don't see why they wouldn't work with standard stud , but not worth the risk in case anything failed.
The bottom part of the proper stud is quite different to the threaded part,more of a mixer in profile.
If I was to use normal stud , I would give it a few turns as you push into the resin to agitate the resin / dust
( rather than just a gentle turn as you push it in as you would do with normal resin in a clean hole)
We also cut a 45° chamfer on the end of the stud when using standard stuff.
Personally I don't see why they wouldn't work with standard stud , but not worth the risk in case anything failed.
The bottom part of the proper stud is quite different to the threaded part,more of a mixer in profile.
If I was to use normal stud , I would give it a few turns as you push into the resin to agitate the resin / dust
( rather than just a gentle turn as you push it in as you would do with normal resin in a clean hole)
We also cut a 45° chamfer on the end of the stud when using standard stuff.
Pete.
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I never heard of any resin fixing where you didn't have to clear the hole of dust. We own a anchor testing division and it's the biggest cause of pull-out failure. I've seen bolts/studs that were fitted in holes that weren't cleared and pulled out without the gauge raising off zero.
If you try to blow a hole out with an air line at the mouth of the hole it'll leave a ton of dust inside. If you use a proper blow pipe where it reaches to the bottom it's better than a puffer by far. I've drilled holes more than half a meter deep for large resin anchor fixings and they are impossible to clear with a puffer.
If you try to blow a hole out with an air line at the mouth of the hole it'll leave a ton of dust inside. If you use a proper blow pipe where it reaches to the bottom it's better than a puffer by far. I've drilled holes more than half a meter deep for large resin anchor fixings and they are impossible to clear with a puffer.
Revs1972
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Ignore the hollow drill bits bit, around 45 seconds he talks about the Hitz anchors allowing you to not have to clean the hole at all
zzr1200
Working at 650 ft on open steel work.
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Dcal
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The pure epoxies are best for load capacity and performance and I don't see much difference between any of the big brands - Hilt, Fisher, Raw plug, Buffalo etc. wouldn't surprise me if they were all made in the same factory.
All the brands have technical department and bespoke software and will design anchorages or recommend the version of their products that's right for your application.
The type and condition of the substrate will be the limiting factor,
if the substrate is up to it, the bar will always fail first in a properly designed and installed anchor
Like @Pete. I've installed some big anchors (biggest probably being 8 number 76mm 8.8 thread bar into 1.2m deep wet cored holes in reinforced concrete)
A puffer wouldn't have been much use for cleaning them out, we used a road compressor and a 3/4 inch blow pipe.
Also hilt don't supply an electric gun so we had to pump a couple of dozen tubes by hand!
The hilti guns are good but it's hard work when the resin is stiffer in the middle of winter.
The anchors @Revs1972 refers to work on a slightly different principal to a pure chemical anchor bond and would fail in a cored hole under very little load. Hilti dont recommend them for that application and I wouldnr use them for anything safety critical.
They should be considered more of a wedge anchor and rely on the compressive force created by the wedge of epoxy and the barb of the bar gripping the sides of the hole under tension.
Nice idea looking for an nonexistent problem (in my opinion) Just use a proper steel wedge anchor.
You can still get capsules (glass or plastic) that are mixed by the anchor bar being installed by a rotary drill and they are more forgiving of badly cleaned out holes (the dust becomes aggregate for the epoxy) but the only people I know that use them widely now are the cliff netters. They used to be used a lot in mining along with the hammer ones.
purely out of curiosity what were you hanging off them (sounds interesting)?
Revs1972
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Hilti have changed their glass capsules to indiviual foil capsules now (safety issue i guess) . Remember having a shed load of them at work that the dates had run out.
Ive got the hilti battery disenser , makes light work of filling the holes when we do use it
76mm threaded bar !! Thats a bit of a beast. How many sausages of gunk per hole
Ive got the hilti battery disenser , makes light work of filling the holes when we do use it
76mm threaded bar !! Thats a bit of a beast. How many sausages of gunk per hole
Dcal
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@Revs1972 It was a fair while ago (before the battery dispensers came out I suppose)
Not sure of the number we used but I think it was 3 or 4 tubes a hole.
@jimbo84 It was for bolting a fender to a quay wall for berthing a car ferry. The originals were cast in but the whole lot got taken off when the captain messed up his parking.
See below for a useful site that covers most options from one page.
Shows most of the available types and useful for volume calculations and can even do simple design. Doesn't go up to 76mm though!
http://jcpfixings.co.uk/category/chemical-products
Not sure of the number we used but I think it was 3 or 4 tubes a hole.
@jimbo84 It was for bolting a fender to a quay wall for berthing a car ferry. The originals were cast in but the whole lot got taken off when the captain messed up his parking.
See below for a useful site that covers most options from one page.
Shows most of the available types and useful for volume calculations and can even do simple design. Doesn't go up to 76mm though!
http://jcpfixings.co.uk/category/chemical-products
Kent
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Wall mounted fork lift crash plates was my job.
I detest those toilets. They look so wrong. They always come loose. No proper engineer ever designed those!
Onoff
In the land of the unfinished project I am King!
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Come loose from where?
Geberit frame for a start.
The blue frame is M8 coach screwed into the stud wall as well as the top anchored by resin anchors into the wall. Pan stuck to wall with CT1 and two M12 studs into the frame. Tbh you could probably take the M12 nuts off and it'd still take my 17st ar5e!
Revs1972
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Come loose from where?
Geberit frame for a start.
The blue frame is M8 coach screwed into the stud wall as well as the top anchored by resin anchors into the wall. Pan stuck to wall with CT1 and two M12 studs into the frame. Tbh you could probably take the M12 nuts off and it'd still take my 17st ar5e!
I am also pretty hefty about 16 and a half stone. I dread these toilets. Many I have used in hotels etc have been a bit wobbly - not good at all. Turning forces are enormous!
