I hate physics but I want to become a welder

[Richard.]

The skill set required really depends on so much.
Lots of people call themselves welders and I disagree with them 9/10.
You cannot be a “welder” unless you hold a recognised qualification saying you are a welder. Some might disagree with this and claim to be welders but the way I see it your not a sparky without the quals, your not a Dr without the quals and welding should be no different. I’m not a welder anymore because any codes I’ve held in the past are long past the exp date.
Now you can use a welder without codes and do a full time job manufacturing stuff and in this case your a fabricator. Being a fabricator (proper fabrication not jig slamming) is a very skilful job. Put The welding aside here as it’s the easiest bit. you need to know about bend angles, rolling, distortion, working out cutting lengths, where to and how to add strength and judge stress. This is a list I could write forever.
Maths and physics are very handy in real proper fabrication. Problem now is most of it is written up on computers now which although makes life easy, like everything the true skills of using formula die with it. I used to build parts for automated welding machines a good while ago. The cooling tables, hoppers and extraction points were all fabbed with squares to rounds, lobster backs, pipe work and often they were worked out with pen and card and some trial and error.
A skilled positional welder can have a different skill set to a fabricator. Maths and physics are not nearly as important but skills like judgement of a pool and understanding a little about defects, why they happen is pretty crucial.
Knowledge of how to properly put in a root without lacking fusion and how to properly repair a flaw.
I believe a proper welder should have some understanding of visual inspection in the same respect I believe a driver should be able to change a wheel.
People get welders and fabricators mixed up sometimes but they are very different skills.

 

[wookie]

You cannot be a “welder” unless you hold a recognised qualification saying you are a welder. Some might disagree with this and claim to be welders but the way I see it your not a sparky without the quals, your not a Dr without the quals and welding should be no different. I’m not a welder anymore because any codes I’ve held in the past are long past the exp date.
Now you can use a welder without codes and do a full time job manufacturing stuff and in this case your a fabricator. Being a fabricator (proper fabrication not jig slamming) is a very skilful job. Put The welding aside here as it’s the easiest bit. you need to know about bend angles, rolling, distortion, working out cutting lengths, where to and how to add strength and judge stress. This is a list I could write forever.

Na, I'm gonna disagree with you on that, just because to have a piece of paper doesn't make your skill set better or worse than the next man. It just means you've managed to meet the bare minimum that is required to gain that piece of paper.

In your case the fact that your codes have expired doesn't change the skills you have acquired, you can still weld to the same standard the day after your codes ran out, you don't magically stop being able to do weld.

I've known people without a single qualification to their name who have a total understanding of what they were doing and capable of doing a highly technical and skilled job far better than someone with a "qualification". Equally I know a guy with a degree in electronics who can't wire a mains socket safely, doesn't know what a fuse does and I wouldn't trust them with anything more complicated than putting a battery in a TV remote. Now you could argue that wiring a mains socket is electrics rather than electronics but if you can't connect up a bit of wire without slashing the insulation and having strands of wire hanging out of the connection then clearly what you learnt doing a degree in electronics is not worth the time you spent at Uni.

People get welders and fabricators mixed up sometimes but they are very different skills.

Yeah by the sounds of it a fabricator can easily be a welder, but a welder can't be a fabricator as their skill set is only a small subsection of being a fabricators, so clearly a fabricator should be paid far more than some who can only press a trigger on a MIG set and stick some bits of metal together.

I'm sorry to be so blunt but I've known enough people with "qualifications" who were useless/incompetent/dangerous while those with fantastic skills but no piece of paper to prove it looked down on.

 

[Burdekin]

The skill set required really depends on so much.
Lots of people call themselves welders and I disagree with them 9/10.
You cannot be a “welder” unless you hold a recognised qualification saying you are a welder. Some might disagree with this and claim to be welders but the way I see it your not a sparky without the quals, your not a Dr without the quals and welding should be no different. I’m not a welder anymore because any codes I’ve held in the past are long past the exp date.
Now you can use a welder without codes and do a full time job manufacturing stuff and in this case your a fabricator. Being a fabricator (proper fabrication not jig slamming) is a very skilful job. Put The welding aside here as it’s the easiest bit. you need to know about bend angles, rolling, distortion, working out cutting lengths, where to and how to add strength and judge stress. This is a list I could write forever.
Maths and physics are very handy in real proper fabrication. Problem now is most of it is written up on computers now which although makes life easy, like everything the true skills of using formula die with it. I used to build parts for automated welding machines a good while ago. The cooling tables, hoppers and extraction points were all fabbed with squares to rounds, lobster backs, pipe work and often they were worked out with pen and card and some trial and error.
A skilled positional welder can have a different skill set to a fabricator. Maths and physics are not nearly as important but skills like judgement of a pool and understanding a little about defects, why they happen is pretty crucial.
Knowledge of how to properly put in a root without lacking fusion and how to properly repair a flaw.
I believe a proper welder should have some understanding of visual inspection in the same respect I believe a driver should be able to change a wheel.
People get welders and fabricators mixed up sometimes but they are very different skills.

Yep quality control and proof that you have competency is a must

 

[ronan]

I am not a welder or fabricator, i am a fitter. But i have spent quite a lot of time and money getting asme ix/6g coded in the past, and out of a class of 32, me and another lad were the only two good enough to do the test and pass. The fact that cert is out of date now, doesn't mean i can no longer weld. I still can and even though i did pass a test for aluminium in the past, i think my aluminium welding is better now than when i passed the test.

Certs, i have witnessed people who were certified time served fitters, toolmakers, welders, sparks, you name it, who were horrifically bad at their trades, so much so i often wondered how they actually got them. My theory was the trade schools were sick of them and wanted them gone, so just passed them to get rid of them. So much for certs.

 

[Richard.]

doesn't make your skill set better or worse than the next man

I didn’t say it did.
I agree with this statement. What I said was without that bit of paper your not a welder.
You might use a welder in your job
You could very well hold some fantastic skills.
Like I said it’s no different to claiming to be a sparks. You are NOT an electrician if your not qualified
Your NOT a welder if your not qualified. Skills yes you might have the best ever but we can’t have every tom dick and Harry running around claiming to be welders just because they can use one at work.
It’s how you end up with chancers offering to weld peoples structures in houses because they use an arc welder at work and the home owner believes that makes him a welder.
The bloke doing the plumbing mind was heavily researched on google first to ensure the company was properly registered and certified. GOD FORBID WE SHOULD FIND A LEAK

 

[Burdekin]

I didn’t say it did.
I agree with this statement. What I said was without that bit of paper your not a welder.
You might use a welder in your job
You could very well hold some fantastic skills.
Like I said it’s no different to claiming to be a sparks. You are NOT an electrician if your not qualified
Your NOT a welder if your not qualified. Skills yes you might have the best ever but we can’t have every tom dick and Harry running around claiming to be welders just because they can use one at work.
It’s how you end up with chancers offering to weld peoples structures in houses because they use an arc welder at work and the home owner believes that makes him a welder.
The bloke doing the plumbing mind was heavily researched on google first to ensure the company was properly registered and certified. GOD FORBID WE SHOULD FIND A LEAK

Just call yourself a ‘metals fusing together engineer’ if you don’t have a qual. ;-)

 

[Richard.]

It’s got nothing to do with saying if you have a qualification your better. I’m certainly not saying that.
I’ve met a lot of unqualified welders seriously skilled people and vica veca but there needs to be an element of control.
We need to have some boundaries in welding because it’s a seriously responsible skilled job and yet it’s so miss understood. Every one has heard this one before “just stick a squirt on this for me will ya mate”. It’s my opinion but I think to call your self a welder is quite a title and you should have passed the minimum standard requirement to do that.
Fabricators and welders are not more skilled than another because it depends so much on what the welder is coded to do.
I cannot see a skilled exhaust fabricator been able to just walk up to a 3G root and just slam in a perfect V up low hy root in the same respect I can’t see a structural site welder pop down his stinger to come and cut and roll a dimensionally sound cone.
Different skills but equally respected.

 

[wookie]

What I said was without that bit of paper your not a welder.

Sorry but you are wrong, what you class as a welder is just a "welder with a piece of paper" if you can fuse bits of metal together at high temperatures you meet the technical definition of a "welder" .

You need to stop referring to them as "welders" and use the correct term such as "qualified welder" or "coded welder" to distinguish them from mere "welders"

Your NOT a welder if your not qualified. Skills yes you might have the best ever but we can’t have every tom dick and Harry running around claiming to be welders just because they can use one at work

You are wrong, anyone can run around and legitimately call themselves a "welder" which brings me onto my next point...

It’s how you end up with chancers offering to weld peoples structures in houses because they use an arc welder at work and the home owner believes that makes him a welder.

What we need to do is educate the general public(*) to understand the difference between a common "welder" and someone who can weld to a certain level i.e. a "coded welder" or "welder WITH relevant qualifications".

(*) Educating the general public will be the hard bit.

 

[Richard.]

Sorry but you are wrong, what you class as a welder is just a "welder with a piece of paper" if you can fuse bits of metal together at high temperatures you meet the technical definition of a "welder" .

Nope your wrong here mate. There is waaaaaaaaaaaay more to welding than just slapping metal together.
It’s comments like this that have bought the trade name right down.
Dissagree all you want but a welder is a qualified tradesmen. There are too many chancers out there thinking because they can operate a Machine they are a welder.
My 8 year old daughter has stuck plenty of bits of scrap together with my tig sets.
More often than not when she’s done I cannot break them apart without a vice and a hammer. According to your theory she’s just a normal welder then not a coded welder.

 

[bigegg]

this turned up on my farcebutt feed this morning.

 

[bigegg]

do you need physics, or chemistry, or perfect eyesight to pass any of the coding qualifications?
that was the OP's question.

i dont know: im not coded/certified
(*certifiable*, perhaps) but im interested in the answer.
do any of the "codings" have a theory component?


oh, and just to stir the pot: a "welder" is the machine, not the operator - hence the reason i always say "i can weld", rather than describe myself as a welder.


same as "i do my own car repairs" rather than "im i mechanic".
mainly because i don't want people to think im as bad as a kwiktit "mechanic"

 

[wookie]

Nope your wrong here mate. There is waaaaaaaaaaaay more to welding than just slapping metal together.

I know there is far more to "welding" than slapping metal together but sadly that is the definition of welding, whether you agree with it or not is immaterial doesn't change the meaning of the word "weld" and it's derivatives

Like I said previously you need to change the terms you use, stop referring to them as "welders" and start calling them what they actually are i.e. "coded welder" or "qualified welder" or "time served welder", if you have to explain the difference to someone the difference between a "welder" and a "coded welder" then do it and perhaps you will educate them.

My 8 year old daughter has stuck plenty of bits of scrap together with my tig sets.
More often than not when she’s done I cannot break them apart without a vice and a hammer. According to your theory she’s just a normal welder then not a coded welder.

It's not a "theory" it is just a fact, there are many trades that in days gone by people spent time doing an apprenticeship or other form of training before calling themselves "a welder" or "a fitter" or "a lathe operator" or whatever but the simple fact is you don't need any qualifications to call yourself a welder.

It's the same as a "professional XXX" be it builder, welder, gardener, carpet fitter etc all "professional" means is you do it for a living and get paid for it.

@bigegg sorry but I don't know, I consider myself a welder, I have been employed for many years as a welder/fabricator but I have no written qualifications in "welding". I know there are people out there far more knowledgeable than me and hat's off to them but equally I'm better skilled than someone's 8 year old daughter.

 

[Richard.]

I know there is far more to "welding" than slapping metal together but sadly that is the definition of welding, whether you agree with it or not is immaterial doesn't change the meaning of the word "weld" and it's derivatives

Like I said previously you need to change the terms you use, stop referring to them as "welders" and start calling them what they actually are i.e. "coded welder" or "qualified welder" or "time served welder", if you have to explain the difference to someone the difference between a "welder" and a "coded welder" then do it and perhaps you will educate them.


It's not a "theory" it is just a fact, there are many trades that in days gone by people spent time doing an apprenticeship or other form of training before calling themselves "a welder" or "a fitter" or "a lathe operator" or whatever but the simple fact is you don't need any qualifications to call yourself a welder.

It's the same as a "professional XXX" be it builder, welder, gardener, carpet fitter etc all "professional" means is you do it for a living and get paid for it.

@bigegg sorry but I don't know, I consider myself a welder, I have been employed for many years as a welder/fabricator but I have no written qualifications in "welding". I know there are people out there far more knowledgeable than me and hat's off to them but equally I'm better skilled than someone's 8 year old daughter.

It’s one of them where we will have to agree to disagree and move on as there is not much in this post I agree with at all apart from the fact that yes your more skilled than my daughter. Opinion respected as always that goes with out saying.

 

[wookie]

It’s one of them where we will have to agree to disagree and move on as there is not much in this post I agree with at all apart from the fact that yes your more skilled than my daughter. Opinion respected as always that goes with out saying.

Sadly I agree with a lot of your sentiment, I think you should only be allowed to call yourself a "welder" if you have considerable skill in the art of welding and a sound knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of the process and how it affects metal but sadly that is not the case, anyone one who can stick bits of metal together with snots of weld can legitimately call themselves a welder. I've passed weld tests with ease and known the calculations and then made a folded box to the exact dimensions required allowing for the gains/losses in the corners to get a job and I might be able to weld good enough to be coded but I'm not so I can only call myself a welder/fabricator, I'm not trying to offend you but I don't know what else to call myself.

 

[Burdekin]

Who's employing folk with no quals? I know I don't and wouldn't.You can call yourself anything I suppose is your argument, doesn't make it right.

 

[Richard.]

Sadly I agree with a lot of your sentiment, I think you should only be allowed to call yourself a "welder" if you have considerable skill in the art of welding and a sound knowledge of the strengths and weaknesses of the process and how it affects metal but sadly that is not the case, anyone one who can stick bits of metal together with snots of weld can legitimately call themselves a welder. I've passed weld tests with ease and known the calculations and then made a folded box to the exact dimensions required allowing for the gains/losses in the corners to get a job and I might be able to weld good enough to be coded but I'm not so I can only call myself a welder/fabricator, I'm not trying to offend you but I don't know what else to call myself.

Your not offending me at all. We just have different opinions. I’m certainly not questioning your skills or ability here in this discussion. I know I too could more than likely go out and pass a few codes but Haven’t for a long time. I can weld but I won’t call my self a welder. My job title has been welder in the past with and without the codes but I still couldn’t call myself a welder when my codes were out. I wired up my whole garage and have done short periods working with sparks I’ve even recently done a 17th edition and electrical inspection course but I can’t call my self a sparky
I know a lot about cars and started life out fixing and building them with my step dad but I’m not a mechanic. For me a welder holds quals. That’s my personal opinion. I agree you don’t need qualifications to do it and do it well but I personally consider the title to be backed up with them. Certainly some welding jobs and positions don’t require them and there is nothing wrong with that. As you rightly say there are muppets out there with codes.

 

[Stingray]

"anyone one who can stick bits of metal together with snots of weld can legitimately call themselves a welder"
Unfortunately a lot of people have this opinion, for example I can hang wallpaper and paint wall's just as good as some time served painter/decorator's can do but do I call My self a Painter and Decorator, No I'm probably three times as slow and probably would not have the consistency of producing the same standard of work if I was doing it day in day out.
Welding can range from scraping by welding old farm equipment, gratings, brackets, railings, and yes if you are working on any of this type of work and not being disrespectful this would be entry level welding that a lot of people could master with a little bit of proper training, after one or two years with this type of work under your belt you may be able to progress further that all depends on the individual, there have always been and always shall be the argument that you're not a proper welder unless you have served a recognised apprenticeship, although I was fortunate to have served My time in an environment that trained apprentices to a high standard, I have worked with first class welders that have not served an apprenticeship, Nigg and Ardersier Rig yards at one stage used to train guys up (dilutees) and a lot of these guys went on to become first class welders who work worldwide on pipelines, power-stations, oil-rigs, refineries, etc.
Anyway there is Welding and there is Welding, if anyone thinks it's easy and never been in an environment of for example being a welder when you're doing restricted mirror welding, or a repair welder on a Lay Barge that costs about £50,000 if you miss the repair and you get a cut-out, or TIG rooting a pipe that some pipefitter's left you with a seven mill gap and feathered edge and says "a decent welder would get that" then you are entitled to your opinion!
Welding is like painting, it can range from throwing a bucket of emulsion on your ceiling to getting Leonardo Da Vinci round for a bit!

 

[Kent]

The skill set required really depends on so much.
Lots of people call themselves welders and I disagree with them 9/10.
You cannot be a “welder” unless you hold a recognised qualification saying you are a welder. Some might disagree with this and claim to be welders but the way I see it your not a sparky without the quals, your not a Dr without the quals and welding should be no different. I’m not a welder anymore because any codes I’ve held in the past are long past the exp date.
Now you can use a welder without codes and do a full time job manufacturing stuff and in this case your a fabricator. Being a fabricator (proper fabrication not jig slamming) is a very skilful job. Put The welding aside here as it’s the easiest bit. you need to know about bend angles, rolling, distortion, working out cutting lengths, where to and how to add strength and judge stress. This is a list I could write forever.
Maths and physics are very handy in real proper fabrication. Problem now is most of it is written up on computers now which although makes life easy, like everything the true skills of using formula die with it. I used to build parts for automated welding machines a good while ago. The cooling tables, hoppers and extraction points were all fabbed with squares to rounds, lobster backs, pipe work and often they were worked out with pen and card and some trial and error.
A skilled positional welder can have a different skill set to a fabricator. Maths and physics are not nearly as important but skills like judgement of a pool and understanding a little about defects, why they happen is pretty crucial.
Knowledge of how to properly put in a root without lacking fusion and how to properly repair a flaw.
I believe a proper welder should have some understanding of visual inspection in the same respect I believe a driver should be able to change a wheel.
People get welders and fabricators mixed up sometimes but they are very different skills.

Driver can't change a dambed wheel when the manufacturer don't put them in the vehicle (or in some cases even have a place you could put one) . This as you point out on the changes in fabrication over your time span continue..
I have unfortunately worked with enough guys who had great quals and some ratified high grade previous employers who did not last the week out to think a little less of papers because in some big firms you realy can hide it seems. I can call someone a welder, Miller, Turner, fabricator, etc only when I have done a while with them in the shop.
My first boss never qualified because he walked out of his examination.. I only learnt this from his college teacher years later non the less the second best tinnasher I have ever known, the best was his right hand man and the college tutor said he thought my first boss was the best that ever passed through his class

No a man should be judged by his work even nhs doctors have been found to not actually worth the name

 

[Badger1bear]

I have used a Sega master system with flight simulator and I am a coded qualified pilot.

Now, with all the guff said

If you can stick metal together, the join is called a weld is it not ? or possibly a fusion if you want to be clever

So long as you don’t get ideas above what you can do you can call yourself the Queen of Sheba

I make stuff (fabricator) and glue stuff (welder)

I don’t call myself make and glue

You can have a bit of paper saying you can glue metal together but that doesn’t mean your a better welder than someone who has time served

This has turned into the fruitless discussion of two fleas on a dog and they both argue who owns the dog

Oh by the way, the dog has no qualifications but he can weld

 

[8ob]

Who's employing folk with no quals? I know I don't and wouldn't.You can call yourself anything I suppose is your argument, doesn't make it right.

In which case I am just a driver, all my other tickets including Lloyds 2 gas and arc are many years out of date. Taxi anyone ?

Bob.