Well/borehole pumps

[snowcat]

In a bid to make the new place ultra low cost to run I am currently looking at getting the old Victorian well as more integral part of the building, At present Iv pulled just under 340,000lts in a four week period to establish new grass, In the well I have at least 20' more depth of water and a total of nearly 40' its clearly spring fed as after the initial draw levels remain fairly static despite nearly 2 months with zero rain.

Currently the £40 draper pump has run out of gusto clearly the head is drawing to its max, However long term I wish to put it in a decent easy to maintain solution and also after simple filtration provide H/W through solar for baths and showers. However first part is to provide water outside this needs to be on demand and easy for the misses to use, Iv heard mixed reports on well pumps with a stuck pressure switch being the death of them.

Anyone have any experience with doing this sort of thing?

 

[WorkshopChris]

Iv heard mixed reports on well pumps with a stuck pressure switch being the death of them.

I have no advise on pumps but it would be a relativity simple job to implement a flow switch, timer and contactor into the system so if the pressure switch was to fail and try to power the pump without any flow the system will lock out (or alarm) till inspected and re set.

 

[addjunkie]

What your looking for is a submersible multi stage centrifugal pump. Centrifugal can run with the discharge closed, multi stage keeps the size down but give good head delivery.

Option one is to pump up a nupress ( pressurised tank/ accumulator) type tank and have the pump cut in and out on pressure switches

Or

Option 2 is to lift water continously and spill back whats not needed with a mechanical pressure regulating valve.

 

[supaimpy]

easy to maintain , go for a multistage grundfos submersible , drop down on a lenght of wellmaster hose , easy to lift when you want to , run it into a tank or cylinder and use a float switch attached to a ball cock , again its simple to set up and maintain.

 

[seriesonewelder]

At work we have 20 odd borehole pumps, some run on undercurrent relays which detect change in load when the pump has drawn down the water and turns off the pump, a timer re-starts it. Others run on transducers (which shows the depth in the well and allows the pump to operate at pre-determined levels) and or flow meters, this system I can monitor and adjust online. Overkill for what you need! Others have made suitable suggestions.

Suggest sourcing a unit with a separate motor (they bolt on) so either pump or motor (can be oil or water cooled) can be changed if needed. K

eep the pump off the floor of the well as grit etc will shorten its life. Better if they run for a long time as opposed to a few minutes at a time. ​

We use on all but 2 pumps bog standard 32mm blue alkathene, with a rope attached to the pump in case the pipe fitting comes adrift.

 

[snowcat]

What your looking for is a submersible multi stage centrifugal pump. Centrifugal can run with the discharge closed, multi stage keeps the size down but give good head delivery.

Option one is to pump up a nupress ( pressurised tank/ accumulator) type tank and have the pump cut in and out on pressure switches

Or

Option 2 is to lift water continously and spill back whats not needed with a mechanical pressure regulating valve.

That's what I run inside the house has terrible flow rates, If I did that wouldn't I need a massive accumulator tank? as in the garden I could want decent flow and constant pressure for hours.

 

[snowcat]

easy to maintain , go for a multistage grundfos submersible , drop down on a lenght of wellmaster hose , easy to lift when you want to , run it into a tank or cylinder and use a float switch attached to a ball cock , again its simple to set up and maintain.

That was sort of the setup that was used before mains came available in the 1950s we pulled the old header tank out that supplied the milking parlour when we converted the barn, the issue with the setup would be volume as reckon next summer when trees and hedges are being established we may want about 6000l per day.... I have considered building a water tower.

 

[brewdexta]

We have a borehole, its about 30m deep or so. It uses a grundfos pump at the end of SS milking tube to the well head where there's a cast iron fitting and from there its MDPE or Alkathene, the blue stuff. This feeds a pressure vessel, the type with the membrane to simulate head and to stop the pump cutting in all the time, so with a pressure switch.

We did have blue pipe all the way down to the pump but the borehole has a lip at the bottom at the end of the liner and the pump catches on it, plus it's full of iron sludge as the water is very high in iron, so there was a risk of the pump dropping off and falling to the bottom of the bore hole when it needed changing. The last time we changed it we set up a gantry and put tension on the blue pipe and left it 10 minutes and it eventually broke free from the sludge. The SS tube should last about 10 year before the water perforates it, possibly more. I changed the well head cast fitting last time as that was perforated and leaking.

From the pressure vessel we've run UG pipes to a couple of taps at the front and back of the house for greenhouse and veg beds etc. and the rest goes to the treatment plant where a venturi injects air into the water so the iron oxidises and drops out of solution so it can be filtered out before feeding the house. We have a spring too but very seasonal and more surface water than spring so probably full of sheep poo, so that goes through a particle and UV filter before we use it, taste great, but rots copper pipes so all plastic now. I use it for brewing beer, the sheep nuggets adds a bit of body

Not sure how much water we pull a day, I doubt it's 6000 litres though.

 

[addjunkie]

That's what I run inside the house has terrible flow rates, If I did that wouldn't I need a massive accumulator tank? as in the garden I could want decent flow and constant pressure for hours.

Yes you would need a fair size tank, though in principle, the air expands to allow the pressure to drop and maintain flow, the pump then cuts in, then out to maintain the pressure. My experience with these was on the ships and oil rigs Ive worked on, some had a bladder others just a vessel.

One way or another you will need something a header tank, a pressure vessel or an oversized pump spilling back to the well. In man speak as with most things, the bigger the tank, vessel or pump, the better it will work.

The last ones I had anything to do with were roughly 3.5m tall and 1 m diameter at 6-7 bar. Supplying 160 person 6 deck accommodation block. As you will be on one level Id suggest lower pressure, 3 bar ish. Could be another use for redundant gas storage cylinders. A bank of smaller vessels linked would also work.

6000 ltrs is one hell of a lot of water, youd need a fairly chunky water tower, and to get 1 bar pressure it would need to be 10m high. Think at 11m you need red lights for aircraft.

Another option would be ground level storage, filled via float switches from your submersible pump, the your supply pumped by an additional pump from the tank.

 

[Gwil]

This is fascinating- my neighbour has an unused 100m borehole with (currently) 90m of water in it, despite very little rain for several years really. Of course, we have no idea how quickly it would fill if we start pulling water from it. I'm encouraged by the fact that we're 100m horizontally from a major river and only 60m above it.

We're thinking of investing in a pump together and have no idea how deep to place it. We only have single phase and don't really have the dosh (we're all retired cheapskates and I have to support a major tool/motorcycle fetish....) to buy a phase converter as well as the pump and associated gubbins. I'm still faffing around looking for a cheap one for my old lathe!

Any ideas and experiences?

 

[GKQ]

I used to have bore hole pumps on my fishfarm. For what you want I would go for https://www.pumpsukltd.com/ebara-idrogo-m-40-15-a-auto.html
Very reliable, better made than grundfos and use a pressure sensor switch in line: https://www.pumpsukltd.com/lowara-genyo-8a-f15.html


You will need to size pump for pipe size / flow required, total head from water surface to highest discharge point.
It’s pretty easy to work out, if I can help let me know.

Graham

 

[Ian James]

We have a bore hole at work working on demand via a balance tank and pressure switch we pump from just over 40 m down the pumps will last between 4and 5 years in our situation we used the water for milk pre cooling all washing down water and drinking water for the main dairy buildings

 

[snowcat]

Yes you would need a fair size tank, though in principle, the air expands to allow the pressure to drop and maintain flow, the pump then cuts in, then out to maintain the pressure. My experience with these was on the ships and oil rigs Ive worked on, some had a bladder others just a vessel.

One way or another you will need something a header tank, a pressure vessel or an oversized pump spilling back to the well. In man speak as with most things, the bigger the tank, vessel or pump, the better it will work.

The last ones I had anything to do with were roughly 3.5m tall and 1 m diameter at 6-7 bar. Supplying 160 person 6 deck accommodation block. As you will be on one level Id suggest lower pressure, 3 bar ish. Could be another use for redundant gas storage cylinders. A bank of smaller vessels linked would also work.

6000 ltrs is one hell of a lot of water, youd need a fairly chunky water tower, and to get 1 bar pressure it would need to be 10m high. Think at 11m you need red lights for aircraft.

Another option would be ground level storage, filled via float switches from your submersible pump, the your supply pumped by an additional pump from the tank.

A few pics just to give an idea of the site, As I essentially live within the yard there's little restriction on what on space or location If and when I fit solar panels I will place them on the two shed at the rear which are around 6000'2 , when I say tower what I was more thinking was a set up I use for filling the crop sprayer 20' container with a skelly chassis on its back and a 10,000lts tank welded to it, although of course this wouldn't supply the required pressure I did think then two el chepo pumps would do the job one to lift then one with head pressure to supply the house.

Another thing iv considered is the use of compressed air pumps we used in aus, I have my workshop at the rear so it would only be a matter of running a line for air however I have a feeling these things are megabucks.

Thanks to all for the input so far.

 

[armalites]

On our well we have a pipe running into the well with non return foot valve at the bottom with a screen on it. The pump is in the house which makes it easily serviceable. We have a pressure vessel which provides the initial boost until the pump catches up.

We have Mono pump on ours and they can suck from a long way down. All the parts are available but they are super reliable. Chatting to a local stockist he said he has replaced Monos with other brands and found they couldn't even get the water out of a deep well and them had to put a Mono back

We had our well tested when our kids were very young and it was done for free as we had young children. No issues other than a recommendation not to reboil water due to sulphates (I think)

 

[pcwizme]

Just out of interest, (as im looking at a house at the moment that has a 300 year old ish well in the grounds) whats the legality of extracting water from a borehole or from a well?
do you need a permit? or any testing or anything for using it. I am thinking of using it for watering a greenhouse or poly tunnel etc. The site also has an orchard that would like the water I expect.

 

[armalites]

Just out of interest, (as im looking at a house at the moment that has a 300 year old ish well in the grounds) whats the legality of extracting water from a borehole or from a well?
do you need a permit? or any testing or anything for using it. I am thinking of using it for watering a greenhouse or poly tunnel etc. The site also has an orchard that would like the water I expect.

No issues at all and if you are pumping from a well you are not bound by hosepipe bans either.

You can get a sample tested if you plan to drink it(it's way better than normal mains water) but if it's not been used for a long time then you would want to be running some water out of there so you get fresh percolated water in there. UV filters can be installed to kill bugs

 

[brewdexta]

I believe up to two households can use a well or bore hole without restriction. I'm not sure about commercial use though. I use the borehole water to cool the wort from the copper after boiling via a heat exchanger which can use a fair amount of water. But currently I only brew at most 6 times a year. But if I turned commercial and brewed daily I guess that would be different, not sure.

 

[hedgecutter]

We have 2 boreholes on a dairy farm and have found this companyhttps://www.whisperpumps.com/ to be very helpful

 

[snowcat]

I believe up to two households can use a well or bore hole without restriction. I'm not sure about commercial use though. I use the borehole water to cool the wort from the copper after boiling via a heat exchanger which can use a fair amount of water. But currently I only brew at most 6 times a year. But if I turned commercial and brewed daily I guess that would be different, not sure.

Commercial requires EA extraction licence and will be conditional on the times of the year a litres permissible for extraction, larger operations even require meters.

 

[Brad93]

Have you got an abstraction licence from the ea for that well?