Steam Boilers

[davidnclare]

Hi, I have just joined in the hope somebody can answer my question,
Can you manufacture a welded construction steam boiler using MIG or MAG welding?
And if so, I need some reference documents BS etc
Ps I am assuming ASME IX proficiency.

 

[Welderpaul]

Welcome to the forum Dave (and Clare?)
Pressure vessels/pipes etc tend to be stick welded (MMA). Automated manufacturing lines tend to use MIG and variations of it.
I can point you in the direction of a site where you can search and download BS standards (For nothing..)
What are you doing exactly?

 

[davidnclare]

Hi welderpaul,
I like the wife(avitar)
I wish to make a steam engine.
Some vintage parts, but the boiler will be new.
Traditionally the boiler would be riveted, but as this is a replica, I would like to use some modern manufacturing techniques.
as MIG/MAG is so much quicker/modern and using the same electric arc. I wish to explore this welding method.
The site where I can download BS standards for free would be a excellent start.
PM me If you wish.

 

[rodofgod]

Hi davidnclare,

Yes mate, you can weld almost any pressure vessel with MIG/MAG process, it's done every day, in every part of the world. I have welded hundreds! In fact if you look-up the photo's I have posted, showing Main Steam Header's in a power station, they are more usually than not, welded with a type of MIG (Flux Cored) Welding.

However, the skill level to achieve acceptable welds is very high and beyond the capabilities of most "Hobbyist" type welding machines.

It also depends on WHAT exactly you are welding! If it's a commercial interest type thingy,within Europe then PED regulations will apply, GOOGLE it! I deal with these regulations on a daily basis and they are quite stringent.

However, I am guessing that your trying to rebuild a vintage steam engine? Most pressure vessels fall under ASME 8 Spec, so this would be a good starting point as with the PED regs. You will find very little about individual welding processes in these documents, they rely on W.P.S's for acceptance of welding process. If you post more info, maybe I can help some more.

Regards

 

[davidnclare]

Hi rodofgod,
Thanks for the reply.
I have read PSSR2000 and PED, and as you say there is very little about the actual welding processes.
I am just looking for an official document that says MIG/MAG welding can be used on steam boilers.
ASME 8 is a massive and expensive document, is there any reference to welding processes in it?, or is there a specific BS EN spec?
So that I can research the feasibility of manufacturing the steam boiler this way.

 

[chriskelland]

Are we talking about full size or miniature?

Chris.

 

[snowcat]

theres a fudge for model engineers that works on bar ltr, under a certain size the figures escape me, and you can run on a "history" as long as the club inspector approves your work and your not selling the boiler or loco within 3 years........

if its a scratch build boiler you will need the correct coding, not necessarily a ASME 9 if the boiler can be manipulated in construction, and over a certain size, some boilers only require a single position coding, as although round there so big the plate can be manipulated and classed as flat.......

a full sized boiler will be stringent (very), a riveted boiler however will only full under inspection, and may be easier to build under hobby conditions......

a phone call to the welding institute would fill you in.........

BTW if its an unproven design you would also need someone to approves the design and WPS, your also have to pay for inspections of the prep, materials and untimely the weld, even with the correct codes............

 

[fungus]

Been quite a few years since done anything relating to pressure systems but wasn't the get out of jail free card something like 200 bar litres????

theres a fudge for model engineers that works on bar ltr, under a certain size the figures escape me, and you can run on a "history" as long as the club inspector approves your work and your not selling the boiler or loco within 3 years........

if its a scratch build boiler you will need the correct coding, not necessarily a ASME 9 if the boiler can be manipulated in construction, and over a certain size, some boilers only require a single position coding, as although round there so big the plate can be manipulated and classed as flat.......

a full sized boiler will be stringent (very), a riveted boiler however will only full under inspection, and may be easier to build under hobby conditions......

a phone call to the welding institute would fill you in.........

BTW if its an unproven design you would also need someone to approves the design and WPS, your also have to pay for inspections of the prep, materials and untimely the weld, even with the correct codes............

 

[snowcat]

really cant remember TBH fungus its all on the web some ware, I think 7 1/4 gauge loco is as big as you can go without certs, even hunslets I think were over...... I looked into doing some commercially a few years ago, but the figures did not stack up.....

The loophole will go I think in the not too distant future.....

 

[davidnclare]

Sorry guys full size.

 

[snowcat]

in that case WPS, approved design, coded welding, inspections, final approval, annual testing, sorry to be the voice of bad news

 

[chriskelland]

Hi All, Snowcat,

The loophole closed in 2006. Limit now is 500 bar/ltrs under the revised code and from 500 to 1100 bar/ltrs providing the tester has 'approval' and is approved by the appropriate insurance company.

Chris.

 

[Tungsten Sharpener]

ASME1X does not relate to welding position, purely standard, some big shops have very large manipulators and the casing welders very rarely weld in anything other than flat.

My advice would be to enlist the help of a coded welder to at least advise on weld prep and process, if its a full sized steam engine being built from scratch, might be a good idea to have him weld it aswell and use the experience to foster your own knowledge.

The regs start at 250bar litres which is very small.

Check with your insurers, I can remember old Fred Dibnagh getting one of his inspected on the TV. That needed some remedial work as i remember.

TS

 

[snowcat]

Fred's one leaked I believe, rivet boilers always did, classic fix was to give em twelve months in the rain, personally if its a proper restore I would build back from the original design, and rivet it, allot of work, but will ultimately make the build worth allot more on resale, IMHO commercial boiler builders take too many shortcuts welding fire tubes in etc they classically always knock the resale value by £££££, iv had the displeasure of retubeing a boiler some tool had buzzed together enthusiast clubs are the best free advice out there, and will be an essential to get a build up and legal and also the only viable route to run for inssurance......

design prep and weld procedure will have to be approved before you can get the all important stamp, getting it welded by a coded welded wont mean a jot unless you've been with the inspector every step of the way......