Today i was amazed

[brewdexta]

Positivity dictates the ice berg that sunk the titanic was, in fact defective. The positive view was that in a maritime collision between two ships one would stay afloat and each could have half the necessary lifeboats. The ice berg did float but alas was missing it's life boats.

I have a different perspective on being positive. IMO the above example is a combination of greed, over optimism and gross stupidity. The WHO when they voted to try and eradicate the biggest viral killer of all time, Smallpox despite a lot of neigh sayers. It worked. You have to be positive to take on a huge undertaking like that, it doesn't mean you are wildly optimistic.

To solve the planets problems we need to change our mind set. Interestingly I read a market report from Bloomberg forecasting EV and ICE usage Lithium battery costs and supply yesterday etc. I'm not sure the full detailed report with data sources is available publicly, you normally have to pay for the detailed analysis and we have a work wide subscription to Bloomberg and others but here's the public summary. The report indicated that by 2025 the battery per kWh price would make EV cars competitive with ICE cars. Fossil fuels would still be the predominant transport fuel by a huge margin even up to 2040 and beyond but EV private cars would be making big inroads into ICE cars. All car manufacturers have invested in using old car batteries as static storage, Lithium is plentiful and cheap, currently in over supply. Yep, there are issues, that's where we need to be positive to solve them.

Re the oil, no simple answers. However there are many countries with no natural product without oil revenue which, if the population has increased the same way and oil never been found, would have starving people.

Instead they have corruption, pollution and still have starving people.

I think we may need to agree to differ on these topics in case we bore the forum to death!

Cheers
Andy

 

[maz0]

Cant beat that instant torque....petrol and diesel will be a thing of the past soon, it will be sad but that is the cost of progress.

 

[500e]

How many cars are there in the UK?
Latest figures show there were 25.8 million licensed cars in the third quarter of 2015 compared with 25.2 million in the same period of 2014. Since 2011, the number has increased by about 1.6 million in England, 142,000 in Scotland and 69,000 in Wales.20 Jan 2016
Now plug them all in or even 50% of them, because you wont want to go out without full charge just in case, makes putting the the kettle after Coronation street pale into insignificance
Also + a possible 6\700 thousand un taxed
Love the idea water wind & it will happen, in one of our businesses the trend has been from NiCad to Ni-metal Hydride to Li,in various forms, space\weight per Ah has improved but cost has escalated
Converting energy will never be 100% ICE are poor converters & the improvement is not great over the last 20 years please don't quote manufacturers figures, electric is a much more efficient method to actually deliver power, but you have to take all the back office infrastructure costs into account.
Hinkley & proposed North Wales & as someone said transporting wood from the US.
I understand Portugal has had a few days without using anything other than renewable's

 

[130]

I have a different perspective on being positive. IMO the above example is a combination of greed, over optimism and gross stupidity. The WHO when they voted to try and eradicate the biggest viral killer of all time, Smallpox despite a lot of neigh sayers. It worked. You have to be positive to take on a huge undertaking like that, it doesn't mean you are wildly optimistic.

To solve the planets problems we need to change our mind set. Interestingly I read a market report from Bloomberg forecasting EV and ICE usage Lithium battery costs and supply yesterday etc. I'm not sure the full detailed report with data sources is available publicly, you normally have to pay for the detailed analysis and we have a work wide subscription to Bloomberg and others but here's the public summary. The report indicated that by 2025 the battery per kWh price would make EV cars competitive with ICE cars. Fossil fuels would still be the predominant transport fuel by a huge margin even up to 2040 and beyond but EV private cars would be making big inroads into ICE cars. All car manufacturers have invested in using old car batteries as static storage, Lithium is plentiful and cheap, currently in over supply. Yep, there are issues, that's where we need to be positive to solve them.

I'd much prefer people to be realisting instead of setting themselves up for failure which undermines these kinds of things

Instead they have corruption, pollution and still have starving people.

I think we may need to agree to differ on these topics in case we bore the forum to death!

Cheers
Andy

And they are doing that to themselves though so maybe the problem is people and not oil...……

Happy to beg to differ but love a good debate.

As I said earlier that folk seem to ignore there was a time horses were better than cars but we had to keep developing.

 

[130]

Cant beat that instant torque....petrol and diesel will be a thing of the past soon, it will be sad but that is the cost of progress.

Unless you want to lap the ring (track) all day in which case you are going to need a plug socket in the middle and a trailing wire or multiple cars

 

[pedrobedro]

Unless you want to lap the ring (track) all day in which case you are going to need a plug socket in the middle and a trailing wire or multiple cars

Why not have a slot in the road like Scalextric No overtaking though

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I'd have thought the answer was obvious......

 

[maz0]

Unless you want to lap the ring (track) all day in which case you are going to need a plug socket in the middle and a trailing wire or multiple cars

The smartest minds in the world are working on this tech at the moment, I think they will manage to come up with something. I imagine things like wireless charging built into the road surface or faster charging batterys that only take half an hour or if your a serious tracker then you buy 2 battery banks and plug one in to charge while you race with the other, kinda like how i use my dewalt screw gun when im busy

 

[Water skier 16]

BMW produced a hydrogen 7 series some time ago, but iirc as a test bed which may go into full production.

That hydrogen 7 series has been scrapped a good few years ago due to not being able to seal the tanks properly

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Why not have a slot in the road like Scalextric No overtaking though

Your forgetting TCR...

 

[Revs1972]

Do people buy electric cars for environmental reasons though ?
If I had a house with a driveway (one day) then I would have one for short journeys , taking kids to school etc, nipping down the shops .
How does the cost stack up though ? Initial cost of vehicle is much higher than equivalent model in diesel or petrol , but running costs are lower .
But how many miles do you have to do to break even?

 

[brewdexta]

If you buy a Renault Zoe the costs can look cheaper but you have a mileage related battery rental to pay for which can be 60 quid a month. We went for the Leaf as it was less than be BMW i3, seats 5 rather than 4 and had more room in the boot, you buy the battery so no extra costs and basically it looks and feels just like a normal car.

The missus took the girls camping for a week which is about 50 miles from us, they did a bit of running around for pubs etc. and still got home with 30% charge so they are not just for popping to the shops. If you can find an available/working rapid charger then you are are back up to 80% range in about 45 minutes. They could have charged it at the camp site overnight if they wanted but didn't need to. There are quite a few apps out there to help you locate your nearest working fast charger.

Initial cost is higher, depends what you compare it to. We haven't had a new car for over 10 years until the Leaf so not sure what to pitch it against but it has lots of toys and is very comfortable. I'm guessing the costs per month on your typical forecourt deal is about 100 quid a month extra for a similar petrol/diesel car, a bit of a guess, I may be pessimistic there. Its roughly escort/astra hatchback sized.

It can do approx 150 miles on a charge which costs about 2 quid.

A litre of petrol is now £1.19 I believe. I guess a similar size petrol car driven carefully can achieve 50mpg so that is roughly 13.5 litres x £1.19 = 16 quid for the same 150 miles. So if you are doing 6,000 mile a year fuel costs are £640 petrol versus £80 electric. So if my guess above is correct, then your paying about 560 quid more a year at 6000 miles a year for the electric.

Servicing is cheaper too, no oils etc. and lighter on the brakes. There's a six year warranty on the battery.

Battery pricing is going down rapidly, so it won't be long before it will be competitive, and the more miles you do the more likely you are to break even earlier.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

I imagine things like wireless charging built into the road surface

Aye, but they can't even fix potholes now, so that'll not happen in my lifetime.

 

[130]

Aye, but they can't even fix potholes now, so that'll not happen in my lifetime.

Maybe the problem solves itself when / If they realise the ever increasing amounts of electromagnetic radiation we are passing through peoples bodies has health Implications

 

[130]

A litre of petrol is now £1.19 I believe. I guess a similar size petrol car driven carefully can achieve 50mpg so that is roughly 13.5 litres x £1.19 = 16 quid for the same 150 miles. So if you are doing 6,000 mile a year fuel costs are £640 petrol versus £80 electric. So if my guess above is correct, then your paying about 560 quid more a year at 6000 miles a year for the electric.

Below is my 328 on LPG compared to fuel prices. The MPG equivalents are around town.
Just because...…….

---------------------------
Windows Script Host
---------------------------
You chose the following

Annual Miles 12000

Petrol 28 MPG

Petrol cost £1.339 per litre

LPG cost £0.54 per litre

MPG drop of 10% on LPG

Conversion cost £814



Results are

LPG Annual cost £1169

Petrol Annual cost £2608.81

Yearly Saving £1439.81

Monthly Saving £119.98

Return on investment in 6.78 months

Percentage saving 55.19%

Petrol cost of £0.22 per mile

LPG cost of £0.1 per mile



Equivalents are

Petrol per gallon £6.09

Diesel per gallon £6.22359978372

LPG per gallon £2.45

LPG running cost equal to getting

62.49 MPG on petrol

LPG running cost equal to getting

62.24 MPG on Diesel
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------


Now the 328 will do over 240 miles on 36 litres if any motorway involved.
That's 150 miles for less than £12.15
No carbon footprint of a new car
No depreciation and car purchase to add to the cost of distance covered
I bought the car for £950 in 2009 @123K miles
I considered than money wrote off after a year or so motoring
Reinvested £850 in a LPG kit in April 2011.
Servicing of LPG kit is a £1.50 filter

Plus my 328was not designed to be a recyclable car so taking it off the road isn't necessarily the environmental boon.


As I see it you can basically equate the price of goods to be Carbon Footprint + Profit.
So to a degree if something comes out cheaper on a spreadsheet it is probably better for the environment.
Don't forget the most energy your ECO car will ever consume will be in it's manufacture.


It is the future, but not for me, at least not yet.

However, all the sci-fi that shows a grey and dimly lit future would appear to have nailed it.
It could work out well or the mining industry could have been destroyed just so it's available for the energy dark ages future

 

[brewdexta]

pity you can old use the glove box for your shopping though

 

[Kent]

Riding in a bomb and limited life in the fuel cell, not exactly environmental friendly substances in them to dispose of.
Cost, exorbitant
Oh we are facing a shortfall in the UK as regards power generation capabilities so I recon buy a diesel generator to go with your electric car
How the heck do we feel about charging a car on fossil fuel dirived electric - for a better environment?

 

[brewdexta]

Interestingly the contents of a battery lithium isn't that dangerous, it's only lively when charged. Disposal is possible but a bit fiddly, these guys are looking promising, they can see a business not a problem when it comes to recycling

Lithium Ion car batteries tend to be around 70% of their original capacity after 10 years. So if the car is FUBAR by then, I hope it's kept longer, but if it is then the battery can be used in the burgeoning static storage business. i.e you have solar PV and want to store it during the day so you can use it at night.

Cost is going down quickly and power density is increasing. Manufacturing cost should be around $80 a kWh by around 2025 compared to over $200 today.

Better to buy some solar PV to charge 'em. A mate up the road has some and is doing just that with his wife's i3. He's loving it as he's not known for spending money. When it's not charging the car it is on his immersion heater so getting very low cost. HW and he's taking the load of our shortfall in power generation - what a nice chap.

 

[130]

pity you can old use the glove box for your shopping though

Bearing in mind most modern cars have spare wheel wells and no spare wheel I don't see a problem.
The tank is in the spare wheel well, and I swapped the full size spare for a space saver, so very little boot space lost, or I could leave the space saver at home, throw out the contents of the expired first aid kit and put a can of goo in there.

 

[Farside]

Maybe the problem solves itself when / If they realise the ever increasing amounts of electromagnetic radiation we are passing through peoples bodies has health Implications

Doubt it.
http://www.who.int/peh-emf/about/WhatisEMF/en/index3.html