Flood coolant - waterless

[Allthegearnoidea]

I have a lathe and milling machine that I use infrequently. I think soluble oils can promote rust and go skanky if not regularly used. Are there any synthetic cutting oils available for flood cooling. Was thinking Of perhaps trying a mist system if all else fails.

Thanks

Regards Chris

 

[MattF]

Just apply something like Fuch's by hand with a brush.

 

[Allthegearnoidea]

Have been doing that but want flood cooling if possible. Probably mainly for the milling operation to promote chip clearance when using smaller cutters

 

[zzr1200]

If you only use it in frequently why not use a mist system and use a 2.5 ltr plastic bucket with a lid, have the return and supply pipe through the lid, then you only need mix up a small amount of coolant.

 

[Allthegearnoidea]

I just think soluble oil promotes rust in hard to reach places. It’s not an issue if the machines used frequently as it has a constant supply of fresh soluble oil and corrosion inhabitants. However if you only use the machine every few months the oil separates and goes messy under the cross slide etc. Just wondered if there are any waterless products.

 

[Agrismith]

Rotabroach sell an oil for there cutters but would get expensive running it in the same quantity as soluble oils so maybe drip fed onto the work piece

 

[Hood]

Neat cutting oil is/was used a lot on multi spindle lathes.

 

[frank horton]

when I run out of my soluble oil I've been recomended HYDRAULIC fluid/oil no 46.........same as most tractors and fork lifts.......
roughly 5 gall of HYD fluid is the same as 5gall of Q8 soluble oil........
hope this helps...........

 

[Allthegearnoidea]

Yes thanks for the advice. I tend to use hydraulic oil as well as it’s relatively available. To be honest I have found any old oil does the job though. I have tried neat soluble oil in the past but it leaves everything a bit sticky and it’s very thick. I have googled this in the past, there are some specialist cutting fluids for certain metals, but most of these carry health warnings and not designed for human contact.

I’m surprised that I appear to be the only one with these difficulties so perhaps I should give it another try. Last time when I used soluble oil in the boxford it just went rancid. But it was probably in there for 5 years.

 

[Hood]

I am not meaning neat soluable, I am meaning neat cutting oil, totally different thing. Was also used quite extensively on Hardinge CNCs

Friend once lost a lovely Bullard twin turret CNC to using neat oil though, parting insert never got changed out when supposed to be and it shattered and the HSS blade was pushed into the workpiece, went red hot and ignited the oil. It could have been worse as the whole building could have burnt down with loads of manual and CNC machines but fortunately the smoke was spotted and fire engine called before it spread.

 

[Hood]

Regarding soluble oil, I found some brands could get sticky as the water evaporated but the better brands tended to be ok and the synthetic stuff I use now is no problem at all. As for rusting, I have never had that and my workshop is 20ft from the sea, sometimes closer on stormy days If the correct concentration is used then rust should not be an issue.

 

[Allthegearnoidea]

What brand are you using ?

 

[julianf]

I used to use pumped coolant on my cnc mill, but i never much liked the sticky-ness.
It seemed, however, to protect against, rather than promote rust.

I ran out and all i had to hand was kerosene, so i used that (not flood) and it works a lot better (for the work i do)

Ive wondered about filling up the sump with it, but, despite kerosenes high flash point, im still not convinced, so i have it in one of those "lab distilled water" style squeegee bottles, and just apply it manually.

Oddly, its a lot nicer to remove from parts than the water soluble oil was.

 

[scott0031]

You should not have issue with a decent quality Soluble. If it is a decent quality, mixed correctly and not out of date in the first place, Or not stored correctly ie within its temperature range All are very important and overlooked and are often the cause of problems. I grant you there are some solubles that are not that great and can give problems even from big well know brands. I seem to have found most of them in the past. Solubles have come an awful long way in the last 20 or so years, so if you have a can of something years old get shot and get with the plot. Saying about coolant being in your lathe for 5 years does indicate long time spans. You probably wont find any manufacture will guarantee anything for 5 years and to be of use.

I have machines that don't get used for extended periods and have no problems other then topping up. A big issue is mixing different brands, although this can be ok sometimes, others it wont be and can be a cause of problems over time, so be wary of that. Also people often do not clean the tanks properly this can also give problems if there are remnants of something that will react long term. In theory as Hood has correctly said the water element can evaporate off, in theory this should leave a film of oil on the machine but this is dependent on the ratios used. You can always increase the oil to water ratio to the higher end of the recommended, this will give a better result the more oil the more of a film you get.

There are fully synthetic neat cutting fluids, but they are mainly used for more specialist application and machine such as sliding head machines and you will not want to be paying the price tag! I don't know off the top of my head but 200 quid for 20 liters would not surprise me.

A little helpful tip to everyone is not to use tap water if you are in hard water area and have coolant problems. I had an ongoing issue with one machine and the cure was to buy distilled water and use that, now the problems have gone away. I expect its to do with irons and salts in the water or something but its definitely less corrosive.

Are you sure the issue is you have is not a damp workshop? Air will not circulate in smaller areas like corners and hard to reach places as well as it will over larger surfaces. You could have a combination of things going on. Also be aware tramp oils can cause problems.

Semi synthetic solubles are the norm these days in so look at one of those. They are really the best of both worlds. I use a range of coolants for different application but fuchs is seemingly a decent brand and has proven a reliable coolant for me. The only issue i have is when its get vaporised.. (I do use it on a machining centre) from either the machining or air lines, it irritates the hell out of my sinuses so i use a a vapor mask now. You wont have that problem on manual machines as there is no comparison with the machining process.

 

[scott0031]

Failing all that, if you are only an occasional machinist then just use a squirty bottle from a pre mixed bucket or something. I use this method all the time on manual machines for smaller jobs. It saves a lot of coolant, doesn't plaster everything and saves a big job clearing the machine of coolant after. You don't actually need a lot of coolant for it not be very effective.

 

[awemawson]

I have a 45 gallon drum of neat cutting oil sat here looking for a home if anyone wants to make an offer for it. (It's already on a pallet). It's Rye Oils Neatcut and is unused.

 

[Hood]

What brand are you using ?

I have been using this on the Chiron for the last 6 months or more and like it a lot.


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FULLY-SYNTHETIC-SOLUBLE-CUTTING-OIL-SYNCUT-EP-20-LITRE-QUALITY-WATER-MIX-OIL/350919120831?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Prior to that I used their semi synthetic which I also found decent.

 

[scott0031]

I have a 45 gallon drum of neat cutting oil sat here looking for a home if anyone wants to make an offer for it. (It's already on a pallet). It's Rye Oils Neatcut and is unused.

Are there any numbers on the drum? The viscosity is the number i am after.

 

[Hood]

......
A little helpful tip to everyone is not to use tap water if you are in hard water area and have coolant problems. I had an ongoing issue with one machine and the cure was to buy distilled water and use that, now the problems have gone away. I expect its to do with irons and salts in the water or something but its definitely less corrosive......

Fortunately the water up here is lovely stuff, none of that hard calcified stuff.

 

[Hood]

I have a 45 gallon drum of neat cutting oil sat here looking for a home if anyone wants to make an offer for it. (It's already on a pallet). It's Rye Oils Neatcut and is unused.

I got a load of neat oil from Mark McGrath when he was selling his BSA multis, use it on occasions for tapping on the lathe but that is about it.