Diesel V super Diesel?

[tlovatt]

Blank off the EGR and your engine will thank you for it, whoever thought of making an engine breathe it's own exhaust gasses should be shot

It is done to reduce NOx emissions from cars

the intake on any engine with EGR will be full of black oily/sooty gunk especially a turbo-ed motor, once you've blanked it off and cleaned the intake the engine will be much happier.

The people breathing in the fumes from the car may not be though!

 

[arther dailey]

Blank off the EGR and your engine will thank you for it, whoever thought of making an engine breathe it's own exhaust gasses should be shot, the intake on any engine with EGR will be full of black oily/sooty gunk especially a turbo-ed motor, once you've blanked it off and cleaned the intake the engine will be much happier.

Couldnt agree more,but I think you will find vosa are onto that,from may new regs come in regarding diesel emmisions apparantly .

 

[julianf]

It is done to reduce NOx emissions from cars

The people breathing in the fumes from the car may not be though!

Ive wondered -

The engine is going to be more efficient running on fresh air, rather than feeding some exhaust gas back in.

If, to take it to the extreme, the EGR system decreased fuel economy by 90%, then 10x as much fuel would be used, so, somewhere approaching 10x as many other negative effects, excluding the NO (nitrous oxide). And, really, probably more total NO too!

Somewhere on the graph there's a cross over point for the NO where its better to use the EGR, as total NO is lowered (i guess) but, still, all the other negative factors will be increased - from the tankers bringing crude around the globe right through to tiny things like more ware on the pumps at filling statons - i mean there's so much that could (probably never) be calculated.

My gut feeling is that any pollution device that decreases efficiency is probably just shifting pollution elsewhere. The whole NIMBY thing again and again.

 

[brightspark]

all l ever use is supermarket diesel and done 65 thousand miles .only changed the diesel filter once .every 8th fill I use injector cleaner and that's it. no point in over doing it

 

[wookie]

It is done to reduce NOx emissions from cars

I know why it's done, I just don't agree with it. If you ever look at the intake of an EGR engined car you'll see the mess it creates and it can't do the engine any good.

Couldnt agree more,but I think you will find vosa are onto that,from may new regs come in regarding diesel emmisions apparantly .

I intend to carry on driving old cars that don't have to meet stupid new regs as long as I can maintain them in a road worthy condition. If they want to solve the air quality problems in cities then just bad the cars completely from the cities, make 'em all pedal bikes around

 

[normspanners]

The problem is modern cars know the egr has been disabled or blanked and then alter there running putting the vehicle into a less efficient MO and in fact are less efficient and use more fuel because of it !
in fact some now disable the egr under certain conditions to save creating more soot thus trying to save the dpf, it is soooo complex that it confuses itself sometimes and fault codes now are so complex there maybe many versions of the same 'old' code ie sub codes to the main ones.

 

[arther dailey]

well I fitted a new throttle valve to the new to me iveco, the old one siezed halfway putting the edc warning light on.anyways the inlet port was clogged with soot down to the size of your thumbnail ! where as after cleaning about 2" diameter, no wonder it ran at all! so next job is egr off and decoke that.
eitherway as I go in london/citys it will stay as it was designed to stop pollution as much as possible,the very reason I got a euro4 van. more complicated as Nspanners has said, but its a fact of life that you need to consider if you work/drive in towns these days.Wouldnt want to pay the £200 a day fine in london !

 

[GW8IZR]

I read today about the Germans agreeing to ban old diesels from Hamburg under pollution control measures, interesting that it seems this will open the floodgates for many other cities throughout Europe. I guess certain politicians (of all persuasion) will be widdling themselves with excitement at the news.

The 'car industry' stated that all the anti diesel feeling was significantly shifting sales from Diesel to Petrol and if this trend continued they would be unable to hit their Co2 targets ........

While polluting the air from Manchester to North Wales I was musing on how much more fuel a petrol car would use per year to shift to 'todays' anti pollution flavour.

A similar power and size car to my 320d would cost me an extra 600 quid a year, that might be small change to some, me ... well I'm sorry but I'll have to keep burning oil while I can.

 

[tlovatt]

A typical external EGR system, with cooling is estimated to lower the efficiency by about 3% and so in reality is insignifica

Around here in the last two years there has been a whole load of( a little bit more) expensive diesel fuels available at the pump .Shell V power is the one I see often ,but it seems all the fuel providers have their own version ,claiming more power, cleaner running,double filtered , better starting, more MPG... what does the hive mind think about this ?

I should actually remember to answer the op before going off on tangents!

Performance diesels do not make claims to give better performance or higher mpg than ordinary diesel, their claim is to have enhanced cleaning agents to 'restore engine performance' This is because diesel cycle engines use compression ignition and so the only way to increase power output etc it to make the fuel more calorific and rise the combustion temperature, this would lead to significant increases in NOx pollution and would likely yield little change in performance anyway.

Premium petrol can make some difference, this is due to the higher octane rating which means the fuel can be subjected to higher compression before the burn becomes uncontrolled. In reality it will only make a difference on engines designed to use it which would be performance engines that have integrated knock sensors and are able to advance the timing to make use of the fuels properties combined with a higher compression design.

 

[tlovatt]

Ive wondered -

The engine is going to be more efficient running on fresh air, rather than feeding some exhaust gas back in.

If, to take it to the extreme, the EGR system decreased fuel economy by 90%, then 10x as much fuel would be used, so, somewhere approaching 10x as many other negative effects, excluding the NO (nitrous oxide). And, really, probably more total NO too!

The typical reduction in fuel economy for a high ration external, cooled EGR system is about 3% but will vary according to how the car is driven.

 

[tlovatt]

I read today about the Germans agreeing to ban old diesels from Hamburg under pollution control measures, interesting that it seems this will open the floodgates for many other cities throughout Europe. I guess certain politicians (of all persuasion) will be widdling themselves with excitement at the news.

It was the German government who failed in court to prevent cities from being allowed to ban diesel engines. Their government were opposed based upon the further damage it would do to diesel sales especially as a lot of manufacturers production capacities are based around shifting lots of diesel engines, they need time to be able to shift production plus with so many cars sold on the never never the manufacturers are taking the risk on the residual values which could plumet if you cannot drive them into a city!

 

[GW8IZR]

It was the German government who failed in court to prevent cities from being allowed to ban diesel engines. Their government were opposed based upon the further damage it would do to diesel sales especially as a lot of manufacturers production capacities are based around shifting lots of diesel engines, they need time to be able to shift production plus with so many cars sold on the never never the manufacturers are taking the risk on the residual values which could plumet if you cannot drive them into a city!

Thank you, having just heard it on news at ten that seems to be correct

 

[fizzy]

All petrol and diesel in the UK comes from a small handful of refineries. It is all the same stuff. The additives don't really do much. And most of the additives are the same as well.
In Cardiff docks there is a Texaco distribution centre. I have seen Sainsbury's - Tesco - Asda - all of them - filling up there!
There is virtually no difference in any of it.
Of course with petrol the higher the octane the better if your car is tuned to use it.
Remember 5 star anyone? I do as a young boy but it had gone by the time I had passed my test. I think it was about 101 - the highest now is 98 or 99 octane for road use.
WW2 had the best petrol - up to 150 octane for spitfires!

 

[dannyp]

Fuels that waffle on about cleaning anoy me intensely,

On a diesel ABF now most petrols guel is injected directly into the cylinder so how can it clean anything upstream of the cylinder, and once those additives have been on fire they aren’t going to clean much ether. So they may help injectors at best.

Tho my old Passat can gain up to 7mpg on average on the daily commute through the lanes after its had a long fast drive or dragged a trailer around for a few hundred miles. I’ve never noticed any difference in mpg or performance regardless of what’s in the tank

 

[skotl]

All petrol and diesel in the UK comes from a small handful of refineries. It is all the same stuff. The additives don't really do much. And most of the additives are the same as well.
In Cardiff docks there is a Texaco distribution centre. I have seen Sainsbury's - Tesco - Asda - all of them - filling up there!
There is virtually no difference in any of it.
Of course with petrol the higher the octane the better if your car is tuned to use it.
Remember 5 star anyone? I do as a young boy but it had gone by the time I had passed my test. I think it was about 101 - the highest now is 98 or 99 octane for road use.
WW2 had the best petrol - up to 150 octane for spitfires!

This times a bunch.

This is such an aged argument that I'm astonished that it's still doing the rounds. Ultimately, it boils down to two commercial entities:

1. The refinery, who ship fuel out by the literal truckload - why would they enhance/hobble what goes into each tanker? And just a point of note, it seems that tankers will service a number of stations, both branded ("BP", "Shell", etc) and unbranded (supermarkets) - how do they do that and maintain what goes into each tank?
2. The resellers; no petrol station or supermarket chain is going to risk selling substandard fuel for the sake of a few pence

Finally, I'd ask who knows most about how to make a fuel most efficient; the refinery, Tesco, or Bob's Filling Station?

I don't buy it (literally) - I doubt that there is any extra material ingredient in a BP-badged pump compared to a Tesco one, nor do I accept that Tesco pump/station maintainers routinely throw dead pigs in their tanks.

I buy from whoever is cheapest, comfortable in the knowledge that the diesel is all coming from Grangemouth.

 

[doubleboost]

After 40 years in the motor trade
20 years of running diesel
I would never buy another diesel
Some of the problems we get with DPF filters
HP pumps EGR valves that are buried behind the engine
Injector washers leaking
Injectors that need to be "coded"
Heater plugs that will never come out of there miserable holes
Fuel filters that are a nightmare to change & bleed
The list goes on

 

[normspanners]

well I fitted a new throttle valve to the new to me iveco,

did you get the modded one with the wiring expensive loom ?

 

[normspanners]

Some of the problems we get with DPF filters

going to have even more from May !!

 

[ukracer]

Have you ever gone into a supermarket and looked at the ingredients of some of the own brand stuff?

For example, we buy own brand "value" dishwasher tablets. If you look at the chemicals in them, and you look at the chemicals in the non-value own brand items, theyre identical. One comes in a box with more colours, one comes in a box marked "value".

Sometimes (im not saying always) product differentiation is not based on the actual product. The packing and price levels appeal to different markets, so its in the retailers interest to cater for those markets. If the person buying the dishwasher tablets with the increased number of inks used on the packing *thinks* that is the product best suited to them, then, well, who is to argue?


My point being is that somtimes the same product is sold at different price points to keep everyone happy. Again, im not saying always, but i do not agree with the "its cheaper for a reason" line - well, actually, i do, but not for the same reasons as you.

The value dishwasher tablets are cheaper for a reason. The reason being that some people like to pay for a more glossy product, regardless of the actual (lack of) chemical benefits.

And thats, my friends , is whats wrong with the world today (or part of it)

 

[ukracer]

Having used both flavours of diesel at times, I can honestly say in my opinion if there is any difference in performance, it so small its not worth the extra cost.

The only thing I can see that might be added is some additives (witches brews) that may or may not be worth while, like injector cleaner or catalyst cleaner which can be done generally by driving the vehicle hard for a while anyway.

Thats another of the problems. Imagine if everyone decided to clean their injectors and cats on the same day......missiles everywhere.

The problem btw is generic...being allowed to design a system that requires you to break the law to keep it going.