Main dealer mechanics, waste of time.

[8ob]

Soft hands are ruining the trade.

Interesting thought or is it the trade is dividing into two, mechanical and tech. There seems to be a rise in the number of companies that just run diagnostics.

Bob

 

[normspanners]

Not sure if they have checked the oil quality, getting basic info from garages is like pulling teeth.

you can do a basic check look at oil quantity on the stick cold, feel it between your fingers, now get it hot if you pull the stick out and its looks clean ie oil has run off, and then you feel the residue, if you can feel your finger prints rubbing together, the chances are the oil is diluted. also might smell of diesel
doesnt allways mean the sump will be overfull BTW, initially yes, but then thin oil gets burnt easier through the turbo etc etc

 

[taxi ray]

I don't think the oil is diluted, as I checked it on Sunday and everything looked ok. And the level was a bit low before, so you would have expected it to be higher due to the diesel contamination.

 

[normspanners]

so you would have expected it to be higher due to the diesel contamination.

Not always, have edited previous post as you posted

 

[ukracer]

I'm reading some interesting views in this thread.
Well I'm a dealer apprentice trained technician, monkey, parts fitter, dart thrower, what ever you want to call us.
Sadly most of what is said in this thread is true, our industry at this moment is really struggling with low numbers of good experienced technicians as they've either moved into other fields or moved out of the workshop.

Now the new young generation coming though is a complete farce, they solely rely on the diagnostics stating what's broken and how to fix, they no longer require to think for themselves.

As for the fault above, I would like to think that they have looked at the live data for the oil pressure in the diagnostics machine, if that has been faultless on several road tests then what do you want them to do?
Do they replace a possibly expensive pressure sensor at your cost for it to come back on because a pressure relieve valve in the pump or block has faltered?
Has the correct specification oil been used, is it thick enough for the engine?
Do you have a dpf which could in turn lead to diluted oil due to excessive regeneration? Usually this over fills the oil but it's not unheard to have a low level with dilution.
How do we know the turbo isn't on the way out causing a low oil pressure across the core?
How do we know the filter isn't blocked.

If it's a young inexperienced lad who hasn't got a world of help in the workshop then simple oil pressure faults can seem like a minefield...
Just think before you think they aren't doing anything, they maybe putting your interests first by not wacking you for a massive bill with some diagnosis darts.

Well its the main dealers fault for not mentoring the inexperienced technician THEY are employing.

Much of vehicle diagnostics is guesswork anyway and only set to get worse.

 

[normspanners]

Much of vehicle diagnostics is guesswork

HUM--------not entirely true------- I like to think, I put 22 and 22 things together to get an accurate -ish answer and it literally can be 22 things, and hours of testing because parts are that expensive to just throw on try, BUT you have to have a good idea how things work, to begin with, to correlate how the 22 things interact and talk to one another and where in that line the fault is hitting, but if you are only given 1/2 hr you have no chance, plus two vehicles with the same fault can react differently.
I had one just rang 10mins ago, been into merc 3times I looked at it 3weeks ago, light was coming on daily and I said it was IMO such and such a fault and that the light might reappear, spoke to him as he passed yesterday, he said its been fine since, so then thought I must have been wrong... then today its gone T' UP.

 

[anto44]

I don't think the oil is diluted, as I checked it on Sunday and everything looked ok. And the level was a bit low before, so you would have expected it to be higher due to the diesel contamination.

What car is it you're having this problem with

 

[taxi ray]

Seat Toledo 1.6tdi 2015
mileage is 104,00 owned from new.
Only repair so far was a water pump, which was done under warranty, they also replaced cam belt, at 70,000 miles.

 

[anto44]

I've replaced a few oil light switches on them for that problem. Its normally obvious it's gone. There'll be oil in the plug if you disconnect it.

 

[normspanners]

Vauxhall oil pressure switches because of the rubber boot on the plug, when they blow the oil is forced down through the wire into the ECU causing havoc.

 

[ukracer]

HUM--------not entirely true------- I like to think, I put 22 and 22 things together to get an accurate -ish answer and it literally can be 22 things, and hours of testing because parts are that expensive to just throw on try, BUT you have to have a good idea how things work, to begin with, to correlate how the 22 things interact and talk to one another and where in that line the fault is hitting, but if you are only given 1/2 hr you have no chance, plus two vehicles with the same fault can react differently.
I had one just rang 10mins ago, been into merc 3times I looked at it 3weeks ago, light was coming on daily and I said it was IMO such and such a fault and that the light might reappear, spoke to him as he passed yesterday, he said its been fine since, so then thought I must have been wrong... then today its gone T' UP.

Thats what i said ....guess work. Lol

 

[Lufbramatt]

It's important to recognise that tech filled cars aren't a problem in and of themselves, it's rather that they have become so complex, no one person can know the ins and outs of an entire vehicle. Therefore, it seems like there has been little emphasis put on teaching mechanics how the basics all fit together because there is so much to learn on the laptop.

I used to drive and old beetle everywhere, my only car. I did all the servicing and knew it inside out no diagnostics port here but it didn't need one.

Fast forward and I'm now running an old BMW E46. Still basic by today's standards but the plug in diagnostics abilities is absolutely brilliant for fault finding, you can see outputs from every sensor on the car, while driving if needed. All that data, without even popping the bonnet can be a fantastic timesaver but you really do need to be able to join the dots sometimes. Maybe the mechanics are to blame for their lack of understanding or maybe it's the car companies for not providing them with more fool proof software.

Very true. Decent diagnostics makes running an older, high end car much easier. I have INPA for my E39 5-series and as you say, you can see loads of detail in real time. With other tools you can code optional features without too much hassle. The previous owner gave me the USB lead so I just needed a £10 disc of software and away you go. It's not painting-buy-numbers by any means as you still have to understand what's causing error codes or odd readings rather than just throwing new parts at the thing. Some cars (such as fords from the same are or newer) have terrible diagnostics- one generic code could relate to loads of different issues, which makes it more of a hindrance than a help, and you're back to old fashioned trouble shooting but with modern electronic components which sucks.

 

[GW8IZR]

Yes, INPA is very good... it gives you additional clues as part of the diagnostic process and then we fix the fault, its no more frightening or difficult than any other diagnostic skill.

We aren't born knowing stuff - we make effort, think and learn.

 

[Gareth J]

Very true. Decent diagnostics makes running an older, high end car much easier. I have INPA for my E39 5-series and as you say, you can see loads of detail in real time. With other tools you can code optional features without too much hassle. The previous owner gave me the USB lead so I just needed a £10 disc of software and away you go. It's not painting-buy-numbers by any means as you still have to understand what's causing error codes or odd readings rather than just throwing new parts at the thing. Some cars (such as fords from the same are or newer) have terrible diagnostics- one generic code could relate to loads of different issues, which makes it more of a hindrance than a help, and you're back to old fashioned trouble shooting but with modern electronic components which sucks.

My experience is almost exactly the same E46/E39....which other tools do you use? I've not progressed past INPA but always interested.

I didn't realise that there were significant differences between manufacturers though, as that's my only "modern" car, I assumed it was kind of standard for anything OBD2. So long as you can see what the sensors on the car are outputting though, coupled with symptoms, you can make sensible diagnoses.

E.g, cabin heater seemed to lack control and be either on or off - plug in while car is warm and running and watch the outputs from various temp/valve control sensors in the heating system to give clues. Notice the cabin temperature "sniffer" had a massive time lag in sending temp changes. Buy a used climate control head unit, clean the "sniffer" fan/thermometer, swap with mine. Realise mine was just gummed with fluff so service mine then put it on eBay. Minimal investment of time/money compared to just making less informed guesses, didn't need to spill a drop of coolant or put on a pair of overalls.

 

[zx9]

My experience is almost exactly the same E46/E39....which other tools do you use? I've not progressed past INPA but always interested.

I didn't realise that there were significant differences between manufacturers though, as that's my only "modern" car, I assumed it was kind of standard for anything OBD2. So long as you can see what the sensors on the car are outputting though, coupled with symptoms, you can make sensible diagnoses.

E.g, cabin heater seemed to lack control and be either on or off - plug in while car is warm and running and watch the outputs from various temp/valve control sensors in the heating system to give clues. Notice the cabin temperature "sniffer" had a massive time lag in sending temp changes. Buy a used climate control head unit, clean the "sniffer" fan/thermometer, swap with mine. Realise mine was just gummed with fluff so service mine then put it on eBay. Minimal investment of time/money compared to just making less informed guesses, didn't need to spill a drop of coolant or put on a pair of overalls.

I have said before that VCDS is very useful to VAG group cars, I have used it to re code secondhand modules which is easy if you can pull the old code from your existing module but perfectly doable given the look up tables in VCDS' wiki.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Yes, INPA is very good... it gives you additional clues as part of the diagnostic process and then we fix the fault, its no more frightening or difficult than any other diagnostic skill.

We aren't born knowing stuff - we make effort, think and learn.

I have a full diagnostic programme on a separate laptop, but have been afraid to plug the e60 in, in case I turn it into a very expensive 'brick'........

 

[8ob]

I bought a ripoff Ford full diagnostic kit and toughbook laptop so we can do our own, slowly moving over to just Fords on the smaller stuff for this reason. Handy being able to run the full vehicle check, code keys and pumps etc. Not that I can drive the thing but I know a man that can

Bob

 

[Barlidge]

I bought a ripoff Ford full diagnostic kit and toughbook laptop so we can do our own, slowly moving over to just Fords on the smaller stuff for this reason. Handy being able to run the full vehicle check, code keys and pumps etc. Not that I can drive the thing but I know a man that can

Bob

That looks interesting Bob

 

[8ob]

That looks interesting Bob

More strange than interesting Bruce, it seems very odd to be standing next to a vehicle thats having the nuts revved out of it by a laptop

Bob

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

"Seems" to be plenty of these boxes available on the internet...personally I'd never condone using anything but a genuine product of course...

....but if I did I imagine that sometimes the setup might be a little fiddly so definitely "I would have thought" that a dedicated garage laptop is the way to go. These systems might for example also need their own specific version of windows so it would be alot easier to just buy a cheap laptop and have it for this purpose down the garage than trying to get into setting up VMs on a new laptop and have lots of issues.

Not that I've ever done this myself of course...but just a thought if someone was thinking of doing it! .

On a completely separate thought...Volvo wanted to charge me £50 everytime their computer got plugged in for a code read....insane