Is the use of a handbrake or parking brake still taught?

[fixerupper]

Yes well ,I think a lot of us learnt to drive the way I did , I'm 17 years old working for a civil engineering contractor in the summer vacation ...Foreman "oi you have you got a licence ?" me" I got a provisional for me bike "... " good you're the dumper driver today"....Edit I just thought I must have been 18 'cos I started college just turned 17 and it was the following summer.....

 

[wookie]

Don't think I wrote anything out of context, the test is more involved, you need to know more about things on a car (show and tell for example) and examiners are under greater scrutiny of their standards.

Having done my car license many years ago and more recently my bike test I've experience of both the older and more recent driving tests. The hazard awareness video game is a joke, I like many older drivers would click too soon for the hazard and get a poor score. I practised it on my computer at home before hand as recommended by a driving instructor friend who also failed it on his first few goes because he also was clicking too soon, how the hell can you notice a hazard too soon ? what a load of crock.

"Show and tell" is so basic as to be virtually worthless, Wow I can point to a brake fluid reservoir but do I know what it actually does or what happens when the fluid is low or is old and needs changing ?

Now as hard as it is to take women are better drivers or at least safer drivers causing far fewer accidents which without being sexist is going a bit against this theory of knowing all the stuff about cars.

As the old saying goes "There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics", you state that women are better because they cause less accidents... how are you calculating that ?

Miles covered between accidents ? If I travel 10x as far as the next driver but have 2x as many accidents then I'm the safer driver not the person who has a lower total number of accidents.

Only accidents that get reported ? What about all those low speed bumps in the supermarket carparks, if they don't get reported do they not count ?

In my experience woman are not better drivers, most I know are terrible drivers, My wife is an exception and she is also of the opinion that women are terrible drivers.

For example my friend drives above the speed limit when on open roads and the weather conditions are good also he is a very attentive driver who has a clean license and only ever fits quality parts to his car, his wife however is a terrible driver, she never anticipates what the car in front is going to do, she's been done repeatably for speeding in 30mph zones including once by a school, has had numerous bumps, gets the cheapest budget tyres fitted to her car against his wishes, won't take advise from anyone etc etc... Which of them 2 is the better driver ?

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Yes well ,I think a lot of us learnt to drive the way I did , I'm 17 years old working for a civil engineering contractor in the summer vacation ...Foreman "oi you have you got a licence ?" me" I got a provisional for me bike "... " good you're the dumper driver today"....Edit I just thought I must have been 18 'cos I started college just turned 17 and it was the following summer.....

I learnt at 7 or 8 on a ride on lawnmower in the orchard (place me old man worked and lived) Clutch 4/speed plus reverse box. Dad used to setup gated obstacle courses. When I did it forward I then had to do it in reverse. Then in reverse with a trailer. Eventually when in was tall enough I was upgraded to a mini and a field

 

[Justme]

In the newer CGI hazard videos you cant click too soon.

 

[Rocketman]

That's comparing apples to oranges...

Women have/cause less reportable accidents. So, statistically they are safer.

It doesn't mean they are more technically competent when it comes to car control.

I have been involved in three accidents with other cars - two of which were women drivers disobeying a 'give way' at a junction. So, on a personal level and using the insurance industry standard of basing future risk on past events, I'm 50% more likely to be in an accident caused by a woman driver. That is a verifiable and indisputable fact with no 'opinion' involved.

As for the test being more involved, well now...

The 'show and tell' aspect is nothing - everyone I grew up with could do all that with no formal training during lessons - because it's to do with technical knowledge that we all had.

The theory test is a load of balls. What relevance to driving does a question such as "if you fail your theory test how long must you wait to resit it?" (taken from the official theory test question bank)?

When I took my test, the 'theory' portion was a few verbal questions at the end. It could have been anything at all and it wasn't multiple choice - there were less questions but the open ended nature meant you actually needed to know more and you didn't have hints.

Hazard perception? Yeah, alright - I've done the online ones and failed every single time because I spotted and clicked the hazard too soon. Too soon - so it wasn't enough of a hazard to bother with until that kid next to the kerb actually steps out in front of you. More balls.

The actual driving part of the test is (I'm led to believe) pretty much the same now as it has been since somewhere around 1990 or before.

As an aside - I couldn't have passed my test without using the handbrake because it's a specified part of the hill start.

I did check with my wife before replying about the hand brake and would you believe it she is a examiner. In fact I ask her a few questions but hey ho. Shall I add more..... no not this time

 

[normspanners]

Talking about men and women drivers I have just remembered a situation I had with the wife's lucida permenant 4x4
Now,--- to aid with diagnosis of a weird noise I had removed the front prop shaft for a few weeks, it is primarily a rear wheel drive vehicle with the front axle drive 'thrown in' as an extra... it drove exactly the same with no issues btw no slippage etc .
both lazy we always parked in park with no handbrake and it never moved until one day the wife went shopping to the aldi car park which has a very slight slope the wife came out of the shop to the car being used as a roundabout in the middle of the drive way she said she was embarrassed--- coz a man had ago about women drivers etc, BRAVE MAN !!!
She moved the car and loaded the shopping, she came home and she had a right go at me, I said it must have been you, youve not put in park properly etc etc anyway we had this almighty row, me saying it was virtually impossible once the PARK locker had gone in for the vehicle to move. I'm a mechanic I KNOW !!! etc etc etc, your just a women ( that always winds her up like an overwound clock !!!)
So she saying now she was always putting the handbrake on after that... me, you dont need to !! a few weeks later we attended a mates surprise birthday party a few miles from home I drove and pushed on a bit to get there in time before he got there, when we got to the car park I locked over, full lock drove in to the only parking spot available in the carpark, we jumped out and ran in ready for the surprise.
An hour later there was an announcement anybody the owner blah blah----- could you move the lucida car its blocking someone, we looked at each other 'how' ah well I'll go, I went out to see the lucida parked at 90 deg across the dead end side road to a housing estate at the back of the pub 3 cars waiting to get in and 2 to get out there was no space front or rear to go round !!! it was parked perfectly, but completely blocking the road like you had done it with a tape measure exactly square---- perfect, and it was locked etc etc.
I jumped in and moved it listening to the peoples disgust saying why did you park it there ARGH ------ YES you are right------ I did the only thing I could in that situation and BLAMED THE WIFE
The issue was, that unbeknown to me the car had a viscous 3rd diff so even though the the park locker would go in, and you felt it clunk against it, because of the viscous diff it would 'lean' on the diff and as it cooled off the diff would slowly relax and let the unmounted prop flange to turn the opposite way and s-l-o-w-l-y allow the car to move!!!
Needless to say I didnt tell ANYBODY where I'd lay'd the blame to the disgruntled people who where blocked in!!
PS. ding lightbulb moment!
This gave me the answer to the weird noise BTW,it was a spurious tyre that was in theory the same size, but was different rolling radius and over a long drive was winding the prop and 3rd diff up!! .

 

[fizzy]

Norm that reminds me.

Did anyone see about that terrible accident where a little girl was killed when an 18 yr old Range Rover ran away down a steep drive?
So tragic and they swear blind the vehicle was in park and handbrake applied.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wales-40887002

There is one comment from the coroner's office that all the media have reported that doesn't exactly clarify anything

"The vehicle was left insecure, with the automatic transmission in park with the handbrake fully applied.

I assume the word insecure is just a typo!

Land Rover are investigating this but I just can't see how this could happen - unless it is something like you just mentioned?

 

[fixerupper]

Was'nt there a young actor from one of the start trek movies killed last year by his own 4x4 ..it rolled into him and pinned him against a gate ...

 

[Farside]

In the newer CGI hazard videos you cant click too soon.

Just like Grand Theft Auto, then.

 

[normspanners]

Did anyone see about that terrible accident where a little girl was killed when an 18 yr old Range Rover ran away down a steep drive?
So tragic and they swear blind the vehicle was in park and handbrake applied.

possibly the cause, but would have thought they would have seen the fact a prop had been removed, also would have to be the rear prop removed --- unusual but not impossible I have removed a few in emergency and used fwd, there also is the case that the park lock pin was broken ... and they are NOT infallible, if they havnt gone 'in' and the vehicle rolls quickly they can bounce off the lock mine did the other day I put it in park with trailer on whilst reversing into a blind spot jumped out in a rush to look around the obstacle to see the back of the trailer was ok and clear and she started rolling but I could hear the locker growling at the lock hole as it rolled, luckily I was only 1m away and was back in a flash.
BUT makes you think ...
in theory a drum parking brake gets tighter as it cools, a disc brake gets slacker, LR have drums

 

[GW8IZR]

The hand brake drum on an 18 yr old RR is tiny and IME very rarely maintained ..

 

[normspanners]

The hand brake drum on an 18 yr old RR is tiny and IME very rarely maintained ..

but is 4/5 x stronger brake though .

 

[GW8IZR]

For sure the diff ratio makes its life easier and the shoes are wider than a 90/110 but the diameter is smaller and when you strip them they are very often only making contact over a few tens of mm due to wear in the linkage, if you wind up the adjuster it tends to drag and chatter. Slop a bit of ep90 in the mix from a leaking transfer box output seal and its often a grimy and sticky mess. Anyway, yes they are servicable and of course designed to hold the train but at a few years old they are very often a bit cack.

And of course, I have no idea if the handbrake did fail, maybe the ratchet was worn and it wasn't engaged properly, all conjecture on my part.. just idly speculating as usual :-)

(edit) I had a BX17 tzdt which was a fantastic car, I used to find that thing parked across main roads, in ditches, in hedges all the time 'cos the handbrake would gently release after an hour or so. I obviously left it in gear but on mountain top sites I'd often resort to throwing a rock in front of the wheel 'in case'

 

[colnerov]

I'd often resort to throwing a rock in front of the wheel 'in case'

Ahh yes, the 'auxiliary handbrake' I've used them.

 

[normspanners]

'auxiliary handbrake'

In my field they are known as a handbrick .

 

[Robotstar5]

For sure the diff ratio makes its life easier and the shoes are wider than a 90/110 but the diameter is smaller and when you strip them they are very often only making contact over a few tens of mm due to wear in the linkage, if you wind up the adjuster it tends to drag and chatter. Slop a bit of ep90 in the mix from a leaking transfer box output seal and its often a grimy and sticky mess. Anyway, yes they are servicable and of course designed to hold the train but at a few years old they are very often a bit cack.

Probably why X Eng bought out the disc conversion?

 

[normspanners]

Probably why X Eng bought out the disc conversion?

We used to convert the transits to vented discs on the rear instead of drums and run a disc brake on the diff flange and mechanical caliper off a fork lift for the parking brake.

 

[Cobbler]

Probably why X Eng bought out the disc conversion?

My sons v8 has a disc conversion fitted. I don't know whose it was, as it was already on there when bought. Holds very well, & I understand it's a fork lift one converted, must be similar to Norms one.

 

[normspanners]

As said before the only problem with a disc is as it cools it reduces in size (thickness) and CAN release, whereas as a drum cools it gets smaller so therefore tighter on the shoes.
in extreme conditions with drums ( rallying) and auto adjusters it is poss for them to go to the next click up, then when the brakes cool the rears will bind.

 

[Cobbler]

This shouldn't be a problem on Landies as the hand brake disc should remain cool as it isn't used for normal braking.