Winton pto compressor generator on Awd Transit?

[Robbie260]

Hey all have been trying to sort out some onboard compressed air for my van, already have a standalone genny. But have seen a few secondhand Winton systems kicking around that have come off mwb RWD transits. So I’m wondering if I could fit one to my mwb Awd transit. Considering they do seem to be selectable Awd. Anyone done it before or know if the AWD gearbox is compatible? Transit in question is an AWD mrk7 mwb. Space is an issue as vans pretty full now why I haven’t just put a normal compressor in there.

 

[8ob]

I would say no, the winton stuff is made to interrupt the prop drive to the rear axle of rwd transits. The awd system on the later transit is a bit like that of the freelander and gets the 4wd bit by fitting another diff for the front driveshafts to power the rear diff, cant see a way of running just the rear prop on this type of awd.
Edit, unless you can mechanically disconnect the front axle drive.

Bob

 

[Robbie260]

I would say no, the winton stuff is made to interrupt the prop drive to the rear axle of rwd transits. The awd system on the later transit is a bit like that of the freelander and gets the 4wd bit by fitting another diff for the front driveshafts to power the rear diff, cant see a way of running just the rear prop on this type of awd.
Edit, unless you can mechanically disconnect the front axle drive.

Bob

Ah didn’t explain well

Main drive shaft out the rear of the box to the rear wheel. Two standard CV drive shafts out the front of the gear box to the front wheels. Van is always in RWD unless I push the selector button on the dash drops out of 4wd after 40mph. Is more of a selectable 4x4 system like a series Land Rover.

But if that is the case that makes perfect sense Bob cheers.

 

[8ob]

Ah didn’t explain well

Main drive shaft out the rear of the box to the rear wheel. Two standard CV drive shafts out the front of the gear box to the front wheels. Van is always in RWD unless I push the selector button on the dash drops out of 4wd after 40mph. Is more of a selectable 4x4 system like a series Land Rover.

But if that is the case that makes perfect sense Bob cheers.

I suppose you will have to put a switch on the speedo drive, the gearbox will think its doing a lot more than 40mph if the pto gear is running, it could launch off down the road if the fwd bit kicks in.

Bob

 

[Robbie260]

I suppose you will have to put a switch on the speedo drive, the gearbox will think its doing a lot more than 40mph if the pto gear is running, it could launch off down the road if the fwd bit kicks in.

Bob

Yeah was thinking a normally closed relay interrupting the pto system if the 4wd was engaged.

 

[Blue Boy]

Hi, first post here and thought I could add my 2p worth. To my understanding the auto part of the Transit AWD is controlled by the ABS module, this also gives the speedo reading, traction control, etc. The manual button primes the system ready to engage as needed. Overall, once engaged by ABS module or manual button, the front drive shafts engage via wet plates when the rear wheels turn more than the front, if the rear prop shaft was to turn without the front wheels turning then the front drive shafts will engage.......
You can remove the electrical connectors from the solenoids on the front axle/gearbox which will stop the front wheels recieving power through the transmition, ABS warning light will flash but I think the AWD will not engage although best to try that first. You could wire in 3 position 2 pole switches to be able to isolate, leave continuity of original wiring, or intentionally power up, the solenoids to act as a means of turning off/standard/on the AWD. If there is anything electrically or mechanically wrong with the ABS then the normal manual AWD button will be flashing and you cannot engage AWD at all. With a 3 way manual switch to power up the solenoids, or kill them, you can still engage the AWD without the ABS module being needed, you would just have to remember to manually turn the system off/back to standard when you get to ground where there is good grip as the AWD has no diff at the front like the old County Transits. Driving on tarmac with the solenoids forced on would break something.
I think you should be able to run the compressor if the AWD was tweeked.

all the best

Luke.

 

[Robbie260]

Hi, first post here and thought I could add my 2p worth. To my understanding the auto part of the Transit AWD is controlled by the ABS module, this also gives the speedo reading, traction control, etc. The manual button primes the system ready to engage as needed. Overall, once engaged by ABS module or manual button, the front drive shafts engage via wet plates when the rear wheels turn more than the front, if the rear prop shaft was to turn without the front wheels turning then the front drive shafts will engage.......
You can remove the electrical connectors from the solenoids on the front axle/gearbox which will stop the front wheels recieving power through the transmition, ABS warning light will flash but I think the AWD will not engage although best to try that first. You could wire in 3 position 2 pole switches to be able to isolate, leave continuity of original wiring, or intentionally power up, the solenoids to act as a means of turning off/standard/on the AWD. If there is anything electrically or mechanically wrong with the ABS then the normal manual AWD button will be flashing and you cannot engage AWD at all. With a 3 way manual switch to power up the solenoids, or kill them, you can still engage the AWD without the ABS module being needed, you would just have to remember to manually turn the system off/back to standard when you get to ground where there is good grip as the AWD has no diff at the front like the old County Transits. Driving on tarmac with the solenoids forced on would break something.
I think you should be able to run the compressor if the AWD was tweeked.

all the best

Luke.

Cheers Luke that’s the best explanation I have found of how the system works I’ll have a look into that.

 

[Blue Boy]

Robbie260, just a couple of thoughts. There are different versions of the front gearbox that might need a diferent approach, Mk1 box has 2 solenoids that allow oil pressure, to the clutch packs, to drop to engage the drive shafts. Mk2 has 2 solenoids and they allow pressure to build to engage, Mk2A has a bleed nipple on drivers side near the solenoid. Mk3 has an electric pump to make presuure rather than the previous gear driven pump. Mk1 and 2 need some excess turning of wheels to build up pressure, Mk3 engages much faster as no pumping by transmition turning needed. Mk4 is on vehicles with DPF and the front gearbox is off to one side with 1 long drive shaft and 1 short, opperation the same as Mk3.
I realised I was talking about the Mk2A as that I have experience with.
The 2nd thought is that during normal driving all 4 wheels will be turning together even if at slightly differnent rates so there is never a time in which the clutch packs see lots of slip, when not engaged. If everything is working and there was any slip the system would engage the clutches as needed and there would still be very limited slip. What I dont know is how the clutch packs would fare if there was a lot of slip as there will be if you tweek it so the rear prop shaft is turning but not the front wheels? I would guess that occasional use for short periods might not do much harm but extended use could cause wear. Being clutches no doubt they will produce lots of heat if there is friction and wear.
Front Gearbox Parts.
Transit forum post with good pictures.
So the real question that was bugging me at 6am this morning, is not 'if' you can tweek the AWD to be able to run your pump, but if it's a good idea or not! And that I don't know the answer to......

Luke.

 

[Robbie260]

Robbie260, just a couple of thoughts. There are different versions of the front gearbox that might need a diferent approach, Mk1 box has 2 solenoids that allow oil pressure, to the clutch packs, to drop to engage the drive shafts. Mk2 has 2 solenoids and they allow pressure to build to engage, Mk2A has a bleed nipple on drivers side near the solenoid. Mk3 has an electric pump to make presuure rather than the previous gear driven pump. Mk1 and 2 need some excess turning of wheels to build up pressure, Mk3 engages much faster as no pumping by transmition turning needed. Mk4 is on vehicles with DPF and the front gearbox is off to one side with 1 long drive shaft and 1 short, opperation the same as Mk3.
I realised I was talking about the Mk2A as that I have experience with.
The 2nd thought is that during normal driving all 4 wheels will be turning together even if at slightly differnent rates so there is never a time in which the clutch packs see lots of slip, when not engaged. If everything is working and there was any slip the system would engage the clutches as needed and there would still be very limited slip. What I dont know is how the clutch packs would fare if there was a lot of slip as there will be if you tweek it so the rear prop shaft is turning but not the front wheels? I would guess that occasional use for short periods might not do much harm but extended use could cause wear. Being clutches no doubt they will produce lots of heat if there is friction and wear.
Front Gearbox Parts.
Transit forum post with good pictures.
So the real question that was bugging me at 6am this morning, is not 'if' you can tweek the AWD to be able to run your pump, but if it's a good idea or not! And that I don't know the answer to......

Luke.

Cheers Luke yes need to have a look at it all and see if it can run it without causing problems. Will have to check that out if not it will be back to the drawing board.

 

[DaveB]

I think the better choice is to find a compressor that can be run in the location used by the aircon compressor.
You then run your air compressor while the vehicle is stationary and out of gear so there is no need to interfere with the abs and awd control.
There are ways of artificially raising the engine 'idle' speed for pto purposes detailed in the Ford BEMM - the vehicle modifiers guide ford publish.
If your looking to modify a mk7 I have copies of the BEMM, send me a pm.

 

[bourbon]

Thank you Luke, great first post. Please introduce yourself so we can get to know you more. (sorry to OP for the thread drift)