Which One

[promusician]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum so go easy on me eh. I'm looking for advice on which welder I should go for. At present I'm restoring a 1972 Triumph Spitfire. I must admit at this time does not need much done to it to complete it. However, what I'm looking for is a reliable welder for doing floor pans as well as chassis work. I was thinking about the Clarke 150 but dont know if it would go down low enough for the thinner metal. My thoughts were at first with gas but as a lot of my work will be carried out outside I thought maybe the gasless would be more suitable....then I got thinking again and came up with...why dont I go for a combo machine giving me the best of both worlds. What do you think? I would be much obliged to all advice I can get on this issue ie: Make, Model and so on.

 

[shenion]

Gas is fine. I use mine outside with no problems. I do work close to the house and a retaining wall so wind is not an issue. You can make a small shield out of tin foil if needed.

Gasless will be even harder on thin metal.

The Clarke 150 is a good unit; the Clark's are a forum favorite for DIY welders. I have a 130EN and love it.

For thin metal, use 0.6mm wire and you should be fine. Go for some argon/CO2 mix over CO2 for the best welds. CO2 is cheap and works ok, but spatters more and is more difficult on thin metal.

 

[irondarren]

First thing is gasless is not so good for thin panel work, so i would be inclined to use gas. Most mig welders go down as low as 30amps the clarkes included, the SIP machines i believe go down to 25amps but they have problems with the wire feed unit. The portamig 185amp goes down as low as 20amps but is a lot more money than a 150amp clarke. What sort of budget do you have?

 

[malcolm]

£1000 is one heck of a budget!

I started out with a Clarke 155TE (possibly similar to the current 160TE). I ran with it for 13 years and tackled a few MGs, an Aston Martin, and a couple of paper thin Renaults. (Had a '77 Spitfire before all that but someone else did the welding).

The Clarke is good and reliable, and can be made to work very well. Though I upgraded last year to a Portamig. I bought it because of the low minimum amps, but to be honest I didn't notice the massive difference I expected from that (check out the calculator and it explains why). The big difference is where I had to constantly fiddle with the Clarke for best performance I can leave the Portamig alone and it will do it's job.

On a budget Clarke is great, but if you've got money to burn try the Portamig at around £500 because it's nicer.

 

[MarkMG]

Hi
I welded Triumph Hearld outriggers and floor pan under a carport with a Clarke 150 running on co2 a few year ago, no problems.

Using a different Clarke 150, bought second hand from one of the feature writers of Practical Classics a few years ago, been welding MG Midget floor pan with no problem

 

[weldequip]

160TE is a great little machine for the price... runs on the refillable type gas cylinders (not supplied) which is the most economical way to go with a MIG if you have any amount of work to do. The Portamigs are a world apart quality & performance wise but if it's gonna be sat there for 6 month's of the year not being used, probably OTT. They do make fantastic plant pot stands though.. you can have them in yellow to go with the sunflowers!
weldequip

 

[irondarren]

Disposable gas or a refilable bottle? some refilables namely from BOC have rental charges attached but if you use the machine, its easy enough and the cost will be cheaper than disposables.

 

[shenion]

Yeah, tough to drop a alot of money on something you will not use every day.

I am happy with my Clarke 130. However, I do wish I had gone for the 180 to handle thicker steel.

The PortaMIG is a different class of machine. The Clarke's are good machines but not designed for heavy duty cycle use. If you are building something like a trailer doing lots of heavy welds, it will cut out due to its low duty cycle.

A PortaMIG has higher duty cycle. Clarke can have as low as 20% cycle at full power while the PortaMIG is usually rates at something like 60% at their top end.

My little 130 has been run at full power and I have never had it cut out. For DIY use, you usually spend a lot of time setting up the next weld. So 100% duty cyle is not a bug issue.

The PortMIG has something like a windshield-wiper moter for the wire feed while the low-end machines have one similar to ones used in R/C cars. The Clarke motors have plenty of torque and decent speed control. Higher-end machines have more accurate speed controls that make welding smoother.

You will be happy with either the Clarke or PortaMIG. I would go for a larger Clarke like a 160 or 180. Service-wise you'll have weldequip for parts/consumables etc.

Tough decision, personally I would go with the PortaMIG if it is in your budget. Will last a long time. Like I said, I have no complaints withe the Clarke, but I have had times I wanted more.

I got the Clarke to fix my old motorcycles and make some changes to my trailer. It has changed how I do things, I'm amazed at how many times having a MIG around was useful. One example was when I was fixing my rear brakes on the jeep, found fulcrum had come loose and got caught in axle and bent in half. Straightened out and it breaks. Sunday afternoon, no way to go get one. Heck it is just a 1/8" steel plate with a notch in each end. Pounded old one flat and welded it back together. Was back in biz in a few minutes.

Who knows, you may have to fix a frame, find a cracked engine mount etc. Something bigger might be needed. Also using one at less than its rated capacity will cause it to last forever so the cost for a good unit is for years of use (as opposed to single-use SIPs ).

 

[irondarren]

The 211 portamig isnt as expensive as you think (about £600), the clarke 205 which is 185 amps is going to cost you about £420, £180 difference, one thing i think which is worth considering is the number of power settings the 211 has 12 power settings which should mean there is a close amperage between each setting about 17amps. the clarke 185 has 6 i believe which is about 30amps per setting, a very big jump. You could easy fine the lowest setting is to low and the next one up is to high. something worth considering when buy any welding machine

 

[shenion]

Sound advice, many thanks. The Sip has no chance with me now. I now understand that it will not suffice. Therefore, I'm thinking of the Clarke 160TE or 165TE. The only thing holding me back is. Will it give me enough low end power for those thin panels on the car? going down to 30 amps is that low enough. or am I still going to do what I'm second to none at...and thats Blowing nice big holes in the panel.

Amps settings are approximate. It should really be voltage settings. The wire type and technique have a lot to do with the current.

I think the 30A is for 0.8mm wire. Switch to 0.6mm and you will be fine on thin metal.

I have done 1mm steel with 0.8mm wire with no problems on the Clarke 30A setting. Would be easy with thin wire.

Yes, a portamig would have finer adjustment on current/voltage. I have had no problems on my 130 with 4 settings, my only issue is I wish it had 2 more higher

 

[irondarren]

I dont think you can go wrong with either machine really both will have good spares back up should you need it. There are other bits and pieces you need apart from the welder, a good autohelmet and a pair of welding gloves wont go a miss, saves burning your hands (my preference on glooves is to use TIG one's even for mig , mainly be mig glooves are so padded, it makes it difficult to feel anything, TIG ones are thinner and you can feel what your doing, but good Tig glooves will set you back almost a tenner) Welding helemt wise you could be flash and go for a nice esab one at £200, but you wont have it on your head 8 hrs a day so a £50 parweld one is great, better than the nasties you get off flea bay. Your will need a few consumables for your welder tips and a spare shroud etc.

 

[irondarren]

The best thing about this forum is its generally full of good advice, from people who weld and use various machines, some are professionals and some are DIY ers and a good few people inbetween. Hopefully it stops people making the wrong disscison when they buy a new welder, and because of the advice they end up with a welder that suits there requirements. If you PM weldequip he can give you the specs on the portamig units and the clarkes one as he sells both

 

[irondarren]

If your welding thin sheet up to about 3mm, 0,6mm wire is fine, im sure there are people here who will tell you, that with 0.6mm wire you can weld thicker than 3mm some might say thinner. after about 3mm thick 0.8mm wire is the next size up, i use 0.8mm for every thing from 1mm sheet (not so clever) through to 10 or 15mm plate, the majority of work i do is 3mm thick or above, ideally for the thicker stuff i should use 1mm wire but i have no trouble even at 250amps. Tips cost pennies well about 75p each. start with 0.6mm wire and tips if you find you want to weld thicker plate just get a reel of 0.8mm and a few tips

 

[irondarren]

shroud is the as you say the outer cover, a shroud lasts ages. but should it become defunked and you don't have a spare it can cause problems again shrouds are real cheap about £1.50 or £2 each, so nothing major. I always try to keep a spare liner handy just in case of a problem again liners are cheap about £6. £15-£20 worth of consumables, means you wont have a problem should something break.
The auto helmets as you say are clear then darken, when i say clear they are very slightly shaded a 3ew if i remember correctly, once you arc up they go to what ever shade the helmet is set to, on a parweld that could be anywhere from 9-13 shade depends on how you set the little knob.

 

[weldequip]

0.6mm wire for thin sheet welding, ie.car bodywork, 0.8mm for anything thicker...above approx. 2mm, like chassis etc.
weldequip

 

[weldequip]

Central 'core' in the welding torch that the wire feeds through. Not something you will have to worry about for a month or two but can cause all kinds of problems & probably the most neglected service part on a MIG welder.
weldequip

 

[irondarren]

The mig wire feeds down the torch, which contains a liner, if you like its a guide that makes the wire come out of the end of the tip. This is considered a consumerable as it will wear out after perhaps 15kgs of wire. If the liner wasnt there then it would be the torch that wore out as opposed to the liner, this way it means weldequip on gets to get £5 out of you every 2 full rolls of wire instead of £30. They are easy to fit and just slide inside the torch, but it does save damaging the torch

 

[weldequip]

It's certainly a good ploy to have a spare but it's not something that wears out on a regular basis... every 3rd. reel of wire is a good replace point (5-15Kg.spools). If it ever goes rusty don't even try feeding it... bin the wire, replace it with new & start again.
PM'd by the way
weldequip

 

[irondarren]

promusician PM weldequip for prices on the clarke and portamig machines, along with the a price for helmet and glooves, along with a few consumables to get you going and keep you going.

 

[Bigjoe]

morning all,
Promusicican www.adamsgas.co.uk will deliver to wester ross,they have 2 customers in orkney,so they should able to oblige you with a cylinder.

Bigjoe