Whats wrong with this machine?

[ukracer]

Ok I want to be careful as I dont say things until I can back them up but I did a lot of research and eventually purchased a TIG 2 days ago and my son set it up on Saturday and Mmmmmmm it did not do what he had done with it before. (He has never welded ali before but he put some decent beads down so was over the moon when he tested before buying)

So I managed to escape the wife and check he had done nothing wrong. After some 2 hours I was convinced he had done nothing wrong so I got out my mates very old TIG welder and cranked it up to about 150 amps and said weld with that son....he did. So I an convinced something went wrong with the machine between him using it and using it in our unit. (or the gun is dodgy) as the gun was 100% new.

My problem is I spent almost 1200 quid so it would work immediately with no messing around. He has ADHD and talks himself out of starting things if he thinks he can not complete them. I am now having massive problems persuading him that the welder is not "s***e" as he calls it but just unlucky to be broken (effectively DOA) (or parts attached to it are)

I am off back to the supplier, and perhaps its just me, but I have 100% faith I will be sorted tomorrow. They did say to me they are so confident in their equipment that if I like it I can tell everyone of the forums but if I dont like it I can say that also . All they ask is for a chance to put things right.

So can anyone tell me whats wrong with the welds

 

[Paul.]

Serious lack of, or the wrong gas. I guess you are also destroying the tungsten. check that you are using pure argon, if so check your flow at the torch, around 5 or 6 lpm needed,
check for leaks and correct assembly of the torch, missing back cap seals will allow air to sucked in.
make sure your torch is plugged into the negative socket, even on AC it will have an effect on the balance

All this and more is in the tutorial section and the FAQ, link at the top of the page,

What machine is it, a pic of the front panel and the way you have it set up will help

 

[biffa]

As Paul said a picture of the panel will say a thousand words, check its is in tig welding mode as if it was in arc you won't be getting any gas through

 

[ukracer]

As Paul said a picture of the panel will say a thousand words, check its is in tig welding mode as if it was in arc you won't be getting any gas through

Thanks for both your replies. I am reluctant to post a pic until I give the supplier a chance to solve the problem. The first thing my son said was the gas is not coming out. SO to be fair to every thing I persevered and got through 5 tungstons and eventually I decided to bite the bullet and try my mates old machine

This welder even I was able to produce some beads so the gas seems fine and we had a pea flow gauge fitted set at 6. even if we upped the gas it welded no better.

I think you have almost confirmed my suspicions and if I have to guess/gamble I am guessing the torch is faulty rather than the welder. Purely as my son welded with the machine we took home but they gave us a new torch lol

Hopefully I can solve it with another torch and in an ideal world a different make. My son has a disability that means its hard to alter his mind when its made up (usually on first impressions) I know some people will say thats all teenagers but my lad is 22 and has lived with it all his life so we know how hard it is sometimes.

Time will tell. Oh BTW is it normal for a tig machine to have an arc inside the machine itsself between two contacts. It looks like the glow is from a blue LED and sounds like gas escaping but its actually two contacts with a spark between it. Is this how Tigs work ?

 

[Paul.]

The sparking inside the machine will be the HF generator, perfectly normal.
Never seen a faulty tig torch, only incorrectly assembled ones but any things possible, If you have no gas at the torch, temporarily disconnect the gas connection at the outlet of the machine and press the torch trigger to see if gas is getting through the welder, it could be the solenoid gas valve is stuck or even had a wire drop off in transit,

 

[ukracer]

The sparking inside the machine will be the HF generator, perfectly normal.
Never seen a faulty tig torch, only incorrectly assembled ones but any things possible, If you have no gas at the torch, temporarily disconnect the gas connection at the outlet of the machine and press the torch trigger to see if gas is getting through the welder, it could be the solenoid gas valve is stuck or even had a wire drop off in transit,

I actually removed the gas tube (as we had fitted it anyway with a collet.) And that was when I listened to what I now know is HF generator lol (It sounds like gas escaping inside) .When the torch was depressed the gas flowed quickly. for an instant and then it continued flowing but at a very slow flow rate it seemed like. That flow rate did not alter when the cylinder flow was adjusted either.

I looked inside the grill and saw the blue spark.

 

[biffa]

The fast flow rate is just a build up of pressure between the reg a flow meter. When the valves opens it releases the gas then continues as normal. You just need to close the regulator a little bit so it doesn't build up as much. If you are getting gas through the torch I would look at the settings ensuring they are correct

 

[ukracer]

The fast flow rate is just a build up of pressure between the reg a flow meter. When the valves opens it releases the gas then continues as normal. You just need to close the regulator a little bit so it doesn't build up as much. If you are getting gas through the torch I would look at the settings ensuring they are correct

settings are exactly as they were at the premises when we purchased it. I even took a photo so if any dials moved i would know. lol

Its not as if its welding a bit and needs adjusting . Especially when I grabbed my mates welder which is also in my unit and it has a broken ceramic and real dodgy torch but both of us laid down welds that resembled welds. I used the gas from my new machine and first time it was clear something was amiss with the new one.

Hopefully it will only be few hours before I get a definitive answer lol

 

[wheresmejumper]

a friend welded fine with a dc tig i had a while back.
next day i had results like yours,couldnt understand it.
after hours of faffing about found the gas hose inside the torch handle had come loose

 

[ukracer]

OK a quick update hopefully to be followed by a mini blog of how we get on with the machine.

The welder in questions was an R-weld 201 ac/dc.

It would appear my initial problems were 70% down to technique but also to some extremely difficult aluminum offcuts I had purchased . lol

Anyway new years eve saw a phone call to R-weld and guess what the MD (who actually sold me the machine) (yes Rob the MD lol) was away that day. So I was met by Daz who runs the service and tech development. He is actually not a welder but his back ground is in electronics. Steve was also flitting around during the hour or so I was there.

Still convinced there was a problem with the welder I waited while Daz laid down a bead on their own test pieces. MMmmm...that was weird . It was pretty good. Nothing like we had experienced. So we started to evaluate the problems (bear in mind this was new years eve)

Laying a bead on the ali samples I had taken was much harder. SO much so that without a pedal is was next to impossible with my limited abilities.

It seems like a lack of cleaning and a wide operating band. i.e lots of amps needed to break through the outside layer but much less to weld, couple this with me not realising the tip of the filler rod needs to stay in the gas shield and you get the results of those pics I posted.

A couple of hours giving me the basics and a trip back up the motorway saw the welder packed away while we celebrated new year in style.

Then it was time to go and play again. armed with some decent aluminium samples and a basic idea me and two mates had a play. Soon we had some beads flowing but the guys I was working with were not content with beads. They wanted joints and go knows what else. So what follows is a few pics of what 3 novices are capable of in less than two hours playing. Some good some bad BUT so good they want they own R-Weld Tig, but my guess is they will shell out for the 250 amp version lol

 

[Engineer1964]

The thing wil ally and i'm sure the experianced tiggers will tell you is it needs to be supper clean, You can buy a spray cleaner for ally welding and thats a bargain if you want decent welds

 

[backpurge]

A good brushing with a stainless steel wire brush to remove the surface oxide is adequate.

 

[Rrunnach]

A good brushing with a stainless steel wire brush to remove the surface oxide is adequate.

Ditto, with the above, if al/al required to be super clean, we would never had made any money welding the stuff, just be glorified al/al cleaners

 

[ukracer]

Ditto, with the above, if al/al required to be super clean, we would never had made any money welding the stuff, just be glorified al/al cleaners

What amazed me is how hard the stuff we were trying to weld was to get started and then it needed very little heat to weld a bead. It was to all intents and purposes the welder was just no good. I wonder how many people have blamed the welder for their lack of basic knowledge.

To give an hour free training on New year eve was above and beyond customer service to be honest. I even left with some samples to test with and several hours later at least one more welder will be purchased shortly. lol An experienced migger who could not get on with big transformer tigs just loves this inverter Tig.

Stand up R-tech Welding and take a bow....

 

[bob.lydon]

A few years ago a good friend of mine also bought a tig machine form r-tech, he had a few problems with the machine (these things happen) which the company sorted out imeadiatley with no hesitation.

Good to know that they are still excellent in the there customer services, new years eve was above and beyond the call of duty, service like this from companys these days is very rare.

Well done R-Tech, best wishes for the new year, you deserve it.

Bob

 

[cardiffrob]

I had a problem with my R-Tech and they sent a courier the same day to collect it, fixed it and had it back to me within 72 hours. No charge at all. I told them that they were possibly the only company in the UK that I've ever experienced with a 100% positive customer satisfaction score from me.