Whats cheaper to run ???

[Baz-Cem]

To all you sparkies out there and anybody else that knows what they are on about

Whats cheaper to run, single phase or three phase ???

Common sence would say 3 phase is more expencive but I was reading the specs on Portamigs and single phase needs an input fuse type of 32/40 amp and 3 phase only needs 16 amp, but then you,ve got the 240/415 volt business.

All the best,

Baz.

 

[irondarren]

not sure about welders but 3 phase motors are far better than single phase, and cheaper to run

 

[shenion]

A -3phase transformer MIG will have a better arc as it has continuous DC vs single-phase with rectified AC.

Single-phase may have power-factor correction. In many it is a compromise, it will draw more power at low currents but less at full.

415 3P will be easier to power as it is lower current per wire, so smaller wires are needed.

If you have 3-phase get a 3P unit. I have 2, 3-phase units sitting here idle as I have no way to power them as 3P is not available in residential areas.

 

[migmag]

But you can get three phase installed as my mate had it done in his garage.

 

[cobminor]

3 phase is available at the nearest sub station single phase is never run to subs.

 

[MrFluffy]

Thats the rub, the cost of the last mile of it.
I enquired how much it would be to run it into my industrial unit in sussex when I had it, and they wanted £4500 to run it in from the local sub station as it required some extra poles being put in. And that was on a industrial park...

The 3 phase current rating will be per phase, so you only have 16a, but you have 16a coming out of all three phases. Each wire is 240v referenced to neutral, its only when you connect to two different phases and go between them you see higher voltages.
It gives a smoother motor rotation as theres a new +ve voltage around every 1/3rd of a turn of the motor. Which helps a bit when its a lathe or the like where smoothness matters.
Theres also a neat trick in that if you swap any two of the phases round, the motor spins the opposite way. Great for simple reversing switches...
I have no doubt its more expensive, its just more versatile...

 

[migmag]

Yeah at my last job during the shut down they were messing with the power.
I returned to work and all the drills linishers even the powder coat line were running backwards.............

Thats why.......

 

[irondarren]

Thats the cool thing with 3 phase swap two wires around and you can get it to run backwards

 

[Baz-Cem]

My neighboor works for swalec and I asked him about putting 3 phase in my garage and he said it would be no problem as 3 phase runs up every street but only one set of the 3 phase cable is run into each house.

The unit next to the one that I want has already got 3 phase so there should not be a problem there.

I just want to know what costs the most. The swalec guy said 3 phase costs the most but a fabricator says that it is cheaper than 1 phase???

Baz.

 

[DAVEWESTMIDS]

cost 3 phase v's single phase

My sparky tells me the opposite!, 3 phase is cheaper , however and for example:

My house:
3 bed semi six of us living here, computers xbox's tvs.dvd, lights, cooker on most of the time typical elec bill £ £240.00 per quarter

My unit:
1500 square foot three of us work in there, equipment, 10ft guillotine, power folder, spotwelder, 3 migs, tig set, two compressors,drills, office etc.... mostly 3 phase, ok, not all on the go all the time but: elec bill - around £75.00 per month

also running a single phase mig at 200 amps from a domestic supply (like welding reilings in your shed) makes your meter go around like a fan!!

Therefore i would say elec companies charge a bit less for commercial elecs as they are used to stitching up the regular householder/guy as are most big companies in this god forsaken ripoff country of hours --- rant over.

 

[murex400]

as dave said i think
3 phase is much more cheaper going by the elec bill i get a home

 

[Drains]

In terms of unit cost, 3 phase is probably marginally cheaper as a higher voltage means lower losses. But otherwise it shouldn't make a jot of difference. You use the same Kwh, regardless (other than the resistance losses). Dont forget - VxA=W. That's what it's all about.

 

[Baz-Cem]

The fabricator that I know said the same as Dave.

His bills are always cheaper at the unit than at home.

 

[Drains]

I bet you don't leave the immersion heater on all day and night at work, or the lights, or stay in the shower for 3/4 an hour etc etc. If you want cheaper bills you need to dump the missus and kids!

Quite possible the kwh cost is cheaper for industrial use too of course.

 

[Baz-Cem]

Mr Drains

You are spot on m8, I try not to waste money on electric and gas at home, it costs way to much to waste.

I'm asking this question to see what the best setup is for the unit I'm about move into. Its going to cost a fair bit to start this business and I want to save as much as I can. I really want to still in business in a year's time

Baz.

 

[malcolm]

If you are starting off then go for the one with the lowest installation cost. The real key for starting up in business is to keep initial overheads as low as possible.

Though if you are buying used equipment then there are fantastic savings to be had in quality kit by going 3 phase. Might balance out the cost of the installation. Can't beleive there's any real difference in kw/h charges.

 

[Baz-Cem]

The bulk of the cost is the bond, insurance, paperwork and first months rent £2000
Industrial welder £1000 - £1500 depending.
I need a nice sized bench, About £350.
A few other bits and pieces.

What does it cost to get the electric turned on?

 

[morph]

3 phase stuff is much cheaper new or secondhand and be more reliable. A big 3-400 amp mig needs 3 phase or are stupidly heavy and expensive. A single phase 350 amp would need a massive 60 amp supply! Bite the bullet and go 3 phase-you won't regret it.

 

[shenion]

3-phase will give you more options.Far better for rotating machinery. A 3P MIG will have a better arc.

My 300A (470Amax)beast takes 107A at 220. The Lincoln 325A (400A max) takes 51A on 3 phase. The Lincoln is newer, so a bit more efficient.

100A wiring is serious cable expense while ~50A can use a common plug.

If you don't go 3P, then you should go with 440/460/480V service.

 

[snowcat]

100A wiring is serious cable expense while ~50A can use a common plug.

If you don't go 3P, then you should go with 440/460/480V service.

So I shouldnt have my sets on 2.5 twin and earth then