What type of welder?

[Kram]

Ive never done any welding before but I want to learn. I will be mostly doing thin stuff like car bodywork, which is starting to get quite rusty (1995 fiesta).

There is also a local college course starting soon, that Im applying for, it will be covering arc/oa/mig/tig over 10 weeks.

I done a lot of reading about the different types but not sure what type is best for car stuff.

If arc is good then thats probably cheapest, although I cant find any cheap ones with a low current - all seem to be 60-120A and none have a 20-30A range.

Id prefer to get a cheap <£70 one if they are good enough. will be using on a 13A socket, on a long (50meter) extension since the road is quite far from the house.

 

[shenion]

Arc is not for thin metal. The thinnest rods you can get are 1/16" (1.6mm).

You will need a decent MIG.

Your budget is too low. At £70, that will barely cover a good extenion that can handle the current without dropping too much voltage.

A decent MIG is about £150. Then add the cost for gas. Gasless will work, but not well on thin metal.

 

[Drains]

Shenions right Kram. You don't have a chance with an arc/stick set on a motor. Arc sets dont go down to 20 odd amps, because they can't operate that low. Inverters (and big multi function units) do, and can be used for tig work at low current. Mig is the only realistic method for you, and I'm afraid the budget will have to be an awful lot more than 70 quid. Your 50 metres is pushing it too, without good fat cable. Better get saving!

 

[ian of fev]

mig welders

hi there kram thers a few clarke migs at the mo on ebay there good value for money and within the hobby/diy budget and spares are readely avalible for these machines from mr weldequip on here i use a clarke 135 te turbo i recentley converted from pure c02 to a fullsize argon c02 mix it works a treat for me on the thin stuff dont go buying a cheap brand name beacause u will have difficulty in obtaning spare parts like i say for car body automotive work the clarks work a treat ive ownd a few in my time but the 135 is defo the one for me.ian

 

[Kram]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-SILVERLIN...yZ113743QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
would this be no good?

I can save up for a little longer though, it would still be cheaper than getting someone to do the work..

The extra cost of the gas/bottle, and no space to store it, is the main reason that I think arc would be better.
Bit confused about why migs need a shielding gas (or fluxed rods) yet arc seems to manage without - and still gets very nice joints.

what size wire do you use on a mig for small stuff?
Im guessing mig wire cant be used in short lengths on an arc set... either due to oxidisation or too impractical to keep replacing it?


What is OA like compared to a mig? Ive used oa before but only for a short time brazing, no welding..

 

[irondarren]

Kram, that is an arc welder, although it will do tig welding as well. TIG is difficult to learn as opposed to MIG. And TIG only really works on very clean metal

follow this link http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/categories/search/diy-mig-welders

You need to be looking at something similar to these, which unfortunatley is going to cost you around £150, anything else just wont do car body work and you will be wasting your money.

Kram where abouts in west sussex are you?

 

[Drains]

Bit confused about why migs need a shielding gas (or fluxed rods) yet arc seems to manage without - and still gets very nice joints.

what size wire do you use on a mig for small stuff?
Im guessing mig wire cant be used in short lengths on an arc set... either due to oxidisation or too impractical to keep replacing it?


What is OA like compared to a mig? Ive used oa before but only for a short time brazing, no welding..

Kram, Arc, or MMA welding uses a rod with a flux coating, which amongst other things, provides a gas shield for the weld. Flux cored mig wire does the same. Non fluxed mig needs a shielding gas. Most (if not all) electric welding processes use a shield of some kind.

You would be best with 0.6mm wire for the thinnest steel.

Your guess re not being able to use mig wire in a MMA set is bang on, and when you consider the amount of metal in a piece of 1mm wire, you will see why even if it was flux cored it would be a waste of time.

You could use oxy acet for what you want but by the time you've bought a torch, regulators, flashback arrestors, hoses etc, and hired the bottles and bought gas.... well you won't see much of a saving.

Might be worth you taking a look at the Miller Stick welding pdf

And the Mig pdf

They'll give you a good idea of how the processes work and what you can do with them (and how)

 

[Maca]

I'm in the same situation and am getting a Clarke 135te, there's one on ebay item no. 330152814915, will probably go cheap as the postage is so insane You could get it for a bargain if you can get him to use a proper service, like Payperdrop, which is on ebay and will only be about £7 for 2 day delivery.

The welder itself is a clarke (probably the best hobby brand). It will do thin sheet metal and will work from a 13amp socket. Looks a bit of a strange listing (had a buy it now yesterday, guess he realised what he was doing.) but if you want a bargain it may help.

Where is the course you are going on, out of interest?

 

[shenion]

had a buy it now yesterday, guess he realised what he was doing.

As soon as someone bids, the buy it now disappears. There is some option to keep it, but I have not seen it on things I have sold.

 

[Maca]

Not this time there was a revision after the first bid, maybe that's what you mean, but I think it just adds to the strangeness. Black and white photo, very brief listing with a weird phrase...

cost arm and foot to post

always have to be carful on the bay.

 

[Kram]

Also what else I would need, PPE/clothing, consumables etc..?

the course im thinking about is either at crawley or burgess hill, the book doesnt have much information about it..

 

[irondarren]

Crawley college does a course, well several. I believe they last about 12 weeks. One for each type of welding, MIG, MMA and TIG. Once you complete the course you get a city and guilds or equivelant in which ever disipline you decide to take, so to do all three would take 36weeks and would give you three certificates. If i remember correctly is about £150 a course (i could be wrong on the price).

Consumerable wise, you need a welding helmet (an auto reactive one is best, nothing wrong with the parweld ones, they are cheap but safe) a pair of welding gauntlets. (i prefer tig gloves to welding guantlets, welding guantlets are just to thick and you have no feeling with them, so i would say tig gloves would be better suit to welding car body material). Then just some spare Mig tips etc.

 

[irondarren]

Ok just did a net search found this
http://www.centralsussex.ac.uk/courses/view.asp?id=4002&querystring=welding&coursetype=pt&quicksearch=1&submit.x=15&submit.y=11

Seems there are MMA course from lv 1 to lv 2
MIG lv1 to lv2
Gas Lv1 to lv2
Tig mild steel , tig aluminium, tig stainless.

Each course costs £100, you get a city and guilds 3267 welding certificate, total of 9 courses.
This cant be only available at crawley college it must be something that is reasonably universal all over the country. £100 to go on a mig course is not bad value for money, be a good starting point for anyone wishing to embark on a restoration project.

 

[mark1234]

to kram

hi mate lots of sets in your budget
go to engweld.co.uk
most important part of welding is preperation
wire brush out the rust and crap b4 u even turn your set on

 

[irondarren]

engweld didnt seem to have many mig units in there range, but they did have a BBQ, not sure how you would weld with one of those, guess you could try fire welding with it. I believe Kram is looking for a sensible priced hobby type unit, possibly a good second hand one from ebay

 

[Ratty]

hi mate lots of sets in your budget
go to engweld.co.uk

cheapest I could see was £422 inc VAT. Sounds rather more than Krams budget methinks.