Welder for 6mm RSA steel - £60 Kende BX1-250C?

[Mr Otford]

I have a need to weld 6mm RSA steel as a small part of my carport restoration project.

I have a SIP 130 Migmate and Cosmo equivalent which I know can't cope with 6 mm RSA. The rest of the project involves 3mm RSA.

However, Screwfix are flogging the Kende BX1-250C for £60 and I was wondering whether, even though Kende are roundly and probably rightly condemned on this forum, it's as good a way of getting the job done as any.

I could hire a bigger MIG from HSS but none of their branches are within easy reach and thus I would need to take holiday just to deliver and collect the unit.

TIA

Richard

 

[cumbriasteve]

Aldi have at the moment an arc set for £39, the offer was a week ago but my store still has about a dozen left...perhaps one local to you will have too.

It would do the job and I doubt the Kende would be any better, they will both cut out and need to cool down with prolonged use

 

[shenion]

Input KVA: 14

That's 60 amps! You would probably be running 130A or so, so figure 25 amps. You would head a heavy-duty lead and at least 20A supply, preferably 32.

It is a cheap Chinese unt but will work with low OCV rods (6013 should be fine.)

I'd look at renting a portable arc welder as you would not need a supply.

 

[Mr Otford]

Input KVA: 14

That's 60 amps! You would probably be running 130A or so, so figure 25 amps. You would head a heavy-duty lead and at least 20A supply, preferably 32.

It is a cheap Chinese unt but will work with low OCV rods (6013 should be fine.)

I'd look at renting a portable arc welder as you would not need a supply.

Hmm. I hadn't reckoned on the mains supply required. Of course, if I could get the bottles at cheap rates I'd use gas welding. I've got all the kit for that except the bottles.

Thanks

Richard

 

[Country Joe]

Richard

I would imagine it could be done, but looking at the reviews, it doesn't seem the best/easiest set to use. Using decent rods ( * definitely not those from Screwfix!), and a bit of practice before you begin, I don't see why not.
I'd be inclined to keep to only doing downhand (ie having the workpieces flat, horizontal and directly in front of you. Positional, or even overhead welding will make it much harder.
Bearing in mind the hassle involved in your other option, a day to collect it, another to return it, and then working to a time limit, (three days of stress!), I would give it a try. The duty cycle won't be up to much, but if you're only doing a small amount, that may not matter.
I did notice a couple of people mentioning a 400v input, but I think that's only if you want to use the full 250 amps, which won't be necessary anyway. If it turns out to be "the most hateful or useless tool in the world", you could probably just return it after you're done, stating, in all truth, that it was useless. I would imagine they'd be reasonably used to this happening anyway.
There is also a 160 amp version of the same welder, that I would assume would be capable of doing the job, too. The weld can always be built up by doing multiple runs (after grinding off the slag, in-between), so the 250A version may not be necessary, anyway. Seems to have better reviews too, but they're quite subjective anyway, and I suspect they're about the same!
Don't want to sound patronising, but if you've not arc welded before, you might want a couple of hours getting used to it first, maybe more if it's a tricky set that cuts out quite often.
There is also a part of me thinking that drilling & bolting might be another way, but that may not be possible or appropriate.
It doesn't sound like too much welding to me, so if somebody local to you, or even on this forum, and living nearby, sees this, they may well do it for you. With all the steel pre-cut, it would be a very quick job, possibly costing less than the welder would. I'd do it myself, but I'm miles away!
Hope this helps,
All the Best,
CJ

* A decent electrode can make more of a difference than might be first be imagined!

PS. That took so long, a load of other replies arrived while I wasn't looking!

 

[Mr Otford]

Richard

I would imagine it could be done, but looking at the reviews, it doesn't seem the best/easiest set to use. Using decent rods ( * definitely not those from Screwfix!), and a bit of practice before you begin, I don't see why not.
I'd be inclined to keep to only doing downhand (ie having the workpieces flat, horizontal and directly in front of you. Positional, or even overhead welding will make it much harder.
Bearing in mind the hassle involved in your other option, a day to collect it, another to return it, and then working to a time limit, (three days of stress!), I would give it a try. The duty cycle won't be up to much, but if you're only doing a small amount, that may not matter.
I did notice a couple of people mentioning a 400v input, but I think that's only if you want to use the full 250 amps, which won't be necessary anyway. If it turns out to be "the most hateful or useless tool in the world", you could probably just return it after you're done, stating, in all truth, that it was useless. I would imagine they'd be reasonably used to this happening anyway.
There is also a 160 amp version of the same welder, that I would assume would be capable of doing the job, too. The weld can always be built up by doing multiple runs (after grinding off the slag, in-between), so the 250A version may not be necessary, anyway. Seems to have better reviews too, but they're quite subjective anyway, and I suspect they're about the same!
Don't want to sound patronising, but if you've not arc welded before, you might want a couple of hours getting used to it first, maybe more if it's a tricky set that cuts out quite often.
There is also a part of me thinking that drilling & bolting might be another way, but that may not be possible or appropriate.
It doesn't sound like too much welding to me, so if somebody local to you, or even on this forum, and living nearby, sees this, they may well do it for you. With all the steel pre-cut, it would be a very quick job, possibly costing less than the welder would. I'd do it myself, but I'm miles away!
Hope this helps,
All the Best,
CJ

* A decent electrode can make more of a difference than might be first be imagined!

PS. That took so long, a load of other replies arrived while I wasn't looking!

Hi CJ.

First off: nope, you're not patronising me in any way! I last did any stick welding when I was in college a great many years ago along with TIG, MIG and gas welding. Since then it's been MIG all the way and I would need loads of practice.

As you say, downhand is likely to be only way that I would get a satisfactory weld. However, I will be welding an angled piece on to the end of a 5m length of 80x80x6 RSA bolted to the side of a house over a garage with an Asbestos cement roof!!!!! So, not the best environment. Bolts are probably the way forward but with everything else welded (in 3mm stuff) it offends me to have to resort to that.

Cheers

Richard

 

[Country Joe]

Bolts are probably the way forward but with everything else welded (in 3mm stuff) it offends me to have to resort to that.

I quite see your point!
I'd feel the same way!
CJ

 

[Drains]

Richard, you don't need more than 90A with 2.5mm rods for welding your 6mm steel, so ideally a 120A minimum transformer would be the thing. The Aldi thing might do you. As above, buy some good rods though or you'll be struggling, whatever welder you use.

Scott, it's not often you're wrong about electrics, but how do you reckon 14KVA is 60A? And why do you think running at 130A output will need 25A input? Any of my arc sets will put out 130A on a 13A 240v supply, no reason for this to be any different unless it's also doubling up as a room heater, surely?

 

[shenion]

14KVA / 230 volts = 60 amps.

250A out = 60A in

130/250 = 0.52, or 130A is 52% 0f full load.

.52 * 60 = 31 amps.

These cheap Chinese sets have a very low power factor and large losses (hence their poor duty cycle.)

25A is a guess as its peak draw.

Another importer said it is 9.6KVA.

Edit: another reason i had for 20A was the loss in long leads.

 

[Mr Otford]

Richard, you don't need more than 90A with 2.5mm rods for welding your 6mm steel, so ideally a 120A minimum transformer would be the thing. The Aldi thing might do you. As above, buy some good rods though or you'll be struggling, whatever welder you use.

Scott, it's not often you're wrong about electrics, but how do you reckon 14KVA is 60A? And why do you think running at 130A output will need 25A input? Any of my arc sets will put out 130A on a 13A 240v supply, no reason for this to be any different unless it's also doubling up as a room heater, surely?

Thanks Drains.

Yes, I've been warned that cheap rods produce lousy results and much user disastisfaction.

Rgds

Richard

 

[Mr Otford]

Scott, thanks for you help.

By the way, I've just spent the best afternoon in a long time avoiding work while reading your fascinating web pages.

Regards

Richard

 

[shenion]

Scott, thanks for you help.

By the way, I've just spent the best afternoon in a long time avoiding work while reading your fascinating web pages.

Regards

Richard

Thats ok, I avoided lots of work writing them

 

[Drains]

14KVA / 230 volts = 60 amps.

250A out = 60A in

130/250 = 0.52, or 130A is 52% 0f full load.

.52 * 60 = 31 amps.

These cheap Chinese sets have a very low power factor and large losses (hence their poor duty cycle.)

25A is a guess as its peak draw.

Another importer said it is 9.6KVA.

Edit: another reason i had for 20A was the loss in long leads.

So it is doubling up as a room heater then.

 

[madkayaker]

its a fairly efficient one as well!

 

[Mr Otford]

Aldi have at the moment an arc set for £39, the offer was a week ago but my store still has about a dozen left...perhaps one local to you will have too.

It would do the job and I doubt the Kende would be any better, they will both cut out and need to cool down with prolonged use

Hello Steve

Popped into Sidcup Aldi expecting to be dissapointed but no, they had about 8 of the following units for £34.99:

Powercraft 160A Arc Welder.

The only other reference that I can find to it is here on eBay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERCRAF...080?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3cbe6ac908

Looking at it I can see why Aldi had so many unsold. The blurb states that it requires a 30A supply and cannot be connected to a domestic socket via a 13A plug. Fortunately my garage is fed by a 32A supply which, hopefully, will withstand the load. I may have to fashion a dangerous extension lead using cooker cable wired direct to the garage CU! But for only £34 it is worth a go.

Wish me luck.

Richard

 

[Robotstar5]

Looking at it I can see why Aldi had so many unsold. The blurb states that it requires a 30A supply and cannot be connected to a domestic socket via a 13A plug. Fortunately my garage is fed by a 32A supply which, hopefully, will withstand the load. I may have to fashion a dangerous extension lead using cooker cable wired direct to the garage CU!

You can use a 13A plug, the worst that can happen is the fuse blows if you try to pull too much current

 

[Mr Otford]

You can use a 13A plug, the worst that can happen is the fuse blows if you try to pull too much current

True

But it was instructive to note that my Migmate 130 was tripping the 16A MCB that supplies my outdoor socket but it was OK on the sockets fed from the garage 32A supply. This is odd because the ring in the garage is fused down to 16A via its own MCB whereas the outdoor socket (not strictly outdoor as it is under the carport that I'm rebuilding but you get the picture) is the only outlet on the 16A MCB in the main CU.

Richard

 

[Robotstar5]

But it was instructive to note that my Migmate 130 was tripping the 16A MCB that supplies my outdoor socket but it was OK on the sockets fed from the garage 32A supply. This is odd because the ring in the garage is fused down to 16A via its own MCB whereas the outdoor socket (not strictly outdoor as it is under the carport that I'm rebuilding but you get the picture) is the only outlet on the 16A MCB in the main CU.

Interesting, are both 16A mcb's the same rating? I would expect a B type one in the house CU, but has the garage a C type?

 

[Mr Otford]

Interesting, are both 16A mcb's the same rating? I would expect a B type one in the house CU, but has the garage a C type?

Mea culpa!

I had assumed that the bod (plumber/electrician) who installed the garage CU had decided that as the sockets are, basically, two spurs that it was better to use a 16A MCB. Wrong! The sockets are on a 32A MCB (type B). No wonder the Migmate didn't trip the MCB.

I've also found that TLC sell 4.0 mm flex and suitable Commando plugs/outlets so I can make up a cable which will enable easy use of the unit in the garage.

Hurrah!


Richard