Water pump for 70m head.

[Gwil]

Yes, honest, 70m!

I'd like to get water to my garden, sheep etc. from the river. It's 200m away but around 70m down from my house. I could get 240v to a point say 20m down from the house, and reduce the head necessary.

No 240v supply further down, but I could have intermediate 1000 cu.m. tank(s) on the way. The land by the river where a pump could be sited floods occasionally so it would need to be portable- by small boat because land access is difficult.

Cheap. Did I mention cheap? I retired last year, I've got time, reasonable fabrication/light engineering skills, and whilst I can fatten my sheep no problem, fattening my wallet has proven trickier.....

Any ideas you creative lot?

 

[Spark plug]

How mutch water do you need to shift?

 

[Pete.]

It only takes 7 bar to lift 70m. I recently had a 3kw 8.5bar 3 phase pump so my first option would be to get a suitable used pump unit and hook it to a small internal combustion engine of about 3-5kw output. Stick it on a wheeled trolley with auxiliary floats, or inside an old dinghy hull/barrel raft.

 

[awemawson]

Can you arrange a leat to give a bit of a head off the stream? If so use a 'Ram' pump - they need no electricity and run for years unattended

http://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/hydraulic-ram-pump-zmaz79mjzraw.aspx

 

[Gwil]

Fast response fellas!

How much water- during the summer maybe 3 cu.m./day, more if possible. We have some land at the back of the house, incredibly rocky but we could terrace and improve it for fruit trees if we had water.

It's a big slowish river, so the ram pump sadly won't work, great shame, as you say they work for ever.

Pete's idea made me think- small boat with an inboard small diesel, dog clutch to disengage drive and engage a pump instead?

 

[evobilly666]

Technically you may need an abstraction license from the environment agency. Not an internet police officer but its nice to have all of the facts if you didnt already know this. I have to use a calibrated meter and fill in returns once a year. I have a 20,000 m3 annual limit and the EA will write to me to stop me abstracting if the river flow drops below a certain level. There is aslo regulation on pre pump filter sizes for rivers that contain eels.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Probably going to have to be some sort of engine as even with a borehole pump you could easily get your lift and flow rate but at roughly 1500w the volt drop over +200m is going to be a big problem.
http://www.anchorpumps.com/pump-typ...plus-75-75-dom-submersible-borehole-pump-240v
Maybe multi lift with a few stages and use a electric pump for you last lift.

 

[knighty]

at the river end I'd be very tempted to fix a submersible pump to a float... so the float floats in the river with the pump hanging under it... that way you never have any problem with air in the system, and the pump it up out of the dirt/crap on the bottom
(have seen petrol pumps like this which are on the float sucking from under it)

then have that feeding into another pump on land, up out of the way of the river where it's nice and dry

for 3 cu.m./day you only need 2 litres/min 24/7

so go with small pumps, really small, and keep then running for a long time... that way they'll be very low power and you'll have less volt drop (for the same sized wire) over the distance

pump size doesn't really matter for efficiency, you'll use the same amount of power shifting 3 cu.m./day no matter if you do it fast or slow
(as long as you're not trying to cram loads of water through a skinny pipe)


you could have a little catchment area at the river with filters etc.. but floating pump seams a bit easier to me



look on ebay for pumps


non return valve at the river would stop drain back... but then at the same time you'd have to make sure the hose didn't freeze in winter?

 

[addjunkie]

Doubt youll need so much in winter.

How about a series of solar pond pumps feeding each other. Though 2 ltrrs per min or actually 4 day light only might be costly.

Could you use a wind driven pump like seen in the cowboy movies, reciprocating. Could build one of those if you have the skills they are not that high tolerence. And lifting 7 bar with a positive displacment pump is no big deal.

 

[Gwil]

Oddly I'd thought about the eel filter- a local delicacy here.

A wind driven pump is out because this is a deep river valley with fairly steep sides, I'd have enjoyed building one otherwise. I wonder whether a combined diesel/solar/240v 'staircase' might be most cost effective? I have a pal who imports solar stuff and if I assemble panels myself I can get 2 watts per euro.

No chance of freezing here, get a very occasional light frost but only at a point in the year when irrigation isn't really needed.

 

[Rudi McAnichal]

I have a pal who imports solar stuff and if I assemble panels myself I can get 2 watts per euro.

Portugal = sunshine. Sounds ideal place for a solar powered pump. Lots of systems like this on the market:
http://www.electricfence-online.co....ssories/30m-solar-water-pump-kit-1133966.html

To cope with flooding, you could consider mounting the pump and solar panels on a raft.

No idea what breed/size of sheep you have in Portugal, but drinking requirement is likely to be quite quite small, probably not more than 5 litre/head/day for fattening lambs, 10 litre/head/day for lactating ewe.

 

[julianf]

(as long as you're not trying to cram loads of water through a skinny pipe)

I would have thought that, for a lot of head, a small dia pipe may be better - less weight of water / back pressure?

 

[Pete.]

If it were a positive-displacement pump the only difference pipe size would make would be the time to fill the pipe. With a ram-pump like in Andrew's link there will be a penalty for pipe size since the head of water will change the delta-p across the valve and affect how much water passes it at each pulse. Too small would affect it too I expect.

 

[Gwil]

So many good ideas- I have the makings of a small pontoon for the river so it may double as a solar or engine driven pumping platform.

We have only 6 sheep- but they're of two varieties, one the locals, a bit harshly, just call 'meat sheep', the others called Campanicas, a small breed very well adapted to the very dry conditions. My partner now wants some Romanovs as well! I say read your history, look what happened to the last lot of Romanovs......
The pasture in summer can be so dry both we and the local sheep/goatherd have to buy feed. Some water to spray around would extend the life of the pasture- our river is the Guadiana, 800k long, and one of the big rivers of Europe, so pulling out any amount from my modest pumping facility won't make much difference to it.

Ps: she also would like a donkey. Donkey powered pump anyone?

 

[Pete.]

How about a compromise? Donkey-engine powered pump

 

[addjunkie]

Can you get a tractor to the river.....if so something like the pump of a slurry tanker, would give you the volume quickly...driven from the pto

 

[Austin]

waterwheel pump?

 

[dannyp]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_tube_water_wheel

sounds like water wheel pump would be ideal for you if it ever fills the tank just let the excess drain back down the hill

 

[GKQ]

Easy to pump 70m, we do that for our water supply here ( 60m head, 300m X 32mm pipe run, with Ebara JEX150 pump ). Best and most reliable pumps are external units. ie non submersible, but large wattage 2.2kw + large pipe required 1 1/4" (32mm) internal . If you want cheap ( very cheap ) use one of these ( see link below ) from China very low wattage and huge head capabilty, Vibrating submersible pumps. Only 370 watts to do 80m head and small pipework is OK with these 3/4" (19mm ) Due to low wattage you can use a smaller supply cable or go solar only 2 x 250 watt panels as no major start up current required. No diy repairs, but the price off sets the lack of repairablity ( is that a word ? ). Graham
http://wholesaler.alibaba.com/produ...8255483.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.Mbkfrx&s=p

 

[Pete.]

Easy to pump 70m, we do that for our water supply here ( 60m head, 300m X 32mm pipe run, with Ebara JEX150 pump ). Best and most reliable pumps are external units. ie non submersible, but large wattage 2.2kw + large pipe required 1 1/4" (32mm) internal . If you want cheap ( very cheap ) use one of these ( see link below ) from China very low wattage and huge head capabilty, Vibrating submersible pumps. Only 370 watts to do 80m head and small pipework is OK with these 3/4" (19mm ) Due to low wattage you can use a smaller supply cable or go solar only 2 x 250 watt panels as no major start up current required. No diy repairs, but the price off sets the lack of repairablity ( is that a word ? ). Graham
http://wholesaler.alibaba.com/produ...8255483.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.Mbkfrx&s=p

Looks like it would make a dandy watercooler pump too!