vertical up or down

[Peter123]

Hello,
I just started new contract for brand new customer
the project is to built container to carry power generator.

The question is: can I weld base vertical down , apart vertical up...10mm black steel

 

[Bill Edwards]

Go for vertical up.

 

[Peter123]

thx Bill I think the same but customer asked me for vertical down, that's why I ask :/

 

[J.B. Welding]

Hi,
Probably best to go v.up, v.down can look nicer but a bit pants strength wise. Ask the customer why they say weld it down ??, then weld it up for your own peace of mind! Just make sure its strong and looks sweet, then everyone's happy!

 

[BrokenBiker]

v up = good penetration and better weld strength, v down = less penetration, risk of not melting in the root and lack of fusion but a good looking weld...I know which I would choose

 

[aametalmaster]

Put the part on a 45 degree angle and run it down. Just my thoughts...Bob

 

[ukracer]

v up = good penetration and better weld strength, v down = less penetration, risk of not melting in the root and lack of fusion but a good looking weld...I know which I would choose

Is that the same for pushing and pulling??

 

[Bill Edwards]

V down is only suitable for work on very thin material where you have to move the torch at such a speed that travelling upwards is difficult. It isn't appropriate on heavy metal.
I'd ask the customer why they want V down, but I can't think of any possible reason why they would require this.
If they want it to look better this shouldn't be worth a compromise on strength, and in any case a half reasonable welder can do a very neat job on V up. If it needs V down to give a good finish there is something wrong.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Pulling does not give the same penetration and is only done by people who don't know any better or on exceptionally heavy plate (well beyond anything encountered in anything resembling ordinary work).

 

[Peter123]

Is that the same for pushing and pulling??

no,vertical up you going up,left/right, left right all way up or triangle

 

[aametalmaster]

...10mm black steel

PLEASE FORGIVE ME i thought that said 10 ga black steel. Which is waaay thinner than 10mm from what i remember in my metric class. 10mm i would do a vertical up...Bob

 

[Lwtwelding]

V down is ok anythink under 3mm not for 10mm lack of thoat thickness well concave lack of fusion !

 

[steviec_lj]

Always been told, vert down for anything up to 7mm, vert up for 8mm plus.

Using a "stitching" effect, bit of a wiggle type thing from panel to panel..

 

[BrokenBiker]

v down on 7 mm runs the risk of cold lap and not fusing the root, when I did mma course I was told v down is only good for thin panel work and after working with mig welders in a maintenance shop they all said v down is only good for stuff that needs to be done quick and only needs to be air tight

 

[steviec_lj]

See, I agree with everything you say there. Vert down gets very little penetration in my eyes.

However, I've see lorry chassis put together exactly this way. Must be 100 maybe 200 thousand of them on the road at this very minute.

I still don't think its as strong as vert up, but for now I do as I'm told. If they want down hand, that's what they'll get..

 

[BrokenBiker]

Don't get me wrong, if you set the machine higher than usual it should get decent penetration. But personally, like you i prefer up hill for the better penetration, easier to see the front of the puddle etc even if it does take a bit longer.

the worrying thing is you have seen the welding on lorries and have concerns, and i make brakes for lorries and have concerns, doesn't sound good lol

 

[Lwtwelding]

If u turn it up to hot the molt and pool starts to run a head of its self lack of fusion certainly no root penertration
If your welding lorry chassis u should work to wps weld procedure specification. V down 3 mm you can 10mm all depends wot its for if its a garden gate or railing then fine if its on steelwork no !

 

[Hitch]

I'll only do downhills on antything thicker than about 3-4mm if its only purpose is a seal weld. If its anything that needs strength, turn it or uphill.
10g, 3mm, if its a critical part like an engine mount of lifting eye, i'd still prefer to turn it.
Do all the ones in one orientation, turn it, then all of those... quicker in the long run most of the time i'd say.

If turning it isnt an option, and an uphill is required, an easy way to tidy it up is to put a downhill at each side of it.
With a bit or practice though, up isnt that bad.

 

[Bill Edwards]

I don't want to sound like some kind of - well, I'll just say that vertical up really is not difficult to do, both neatly and with good quality. If anybody isn't able to make a neat job of V up and therefor feels they should be doing V down for a neat job then I think they need more practice before doing anything critical where safety becomes a factor.

 

[BrokenBiker]

I don't want to sound like some kind of - well, I'll just say that vertical up really is not difficult to do, both neatly and with good quality. If anybody isn't able to make a neat job of V up and therefor feels they should be doing V down for a neat job then I think they need more practice before doing anything critical where safety becomes a factor.

I agree with this, uphill isn't much different to welding in flat position, still pushing the puddle, just in a different direction. there seems to be a bit of a misconception that it is mandatory to weave going uphill, but I only ever weave for a final cap if I want to make it look nice. I usually only weld uphill with stick, but even so same story there too