Trailer IVA

[Spanner88]

I own a Suzuki Jimny with a M16A swap, lift kit, snorkel and afew other bits bolted on. I recently got into the idea of making an overland style matching trailer to tow behind it, I also really want to be able to transport 8x4 sheet materials flat, which my current trailer is a faff and useless for. I bought a Jimny front axle with the plan to make the trailer axle using the Jimny front stubs, hubs, discs and calipers. I've got a friend who can mill up a pair of custom stub axles, to make it even stronger to pass through the Jimny stub axle, and some 18mm+ machined end plates to bolt the stubs and calipers to, welded to some 76.1mm 5mm tubing.

I've tried reading through the trailer IVA manual online and nowhere on there can I find anything relating to the build of the axle... I asked someone in the trailer business and they claimed the axle needs to be CE marked and have manufacturers documentation with it, is this actually accurate? I see plenty of mention about lights needing E/CE marks and the coupling, brakes... But zero relating to the psyical build or standard of the axle.

Has anyone attended a 02 class trailer IVA, did they look for CE markings on the axle or just visually inspect it, take note of tube thickness, quality of welds and visual safety?

I've seen very briefly mentioned online, people building exactly the same thing using land rover parts for a trailer towed behind their defender, using the defender stubs and hubs in the same way...

Thanks for reading

 

[Turbo]

The current regs are that tight it has practically stopped the home building of a trailer.
But you can get around this by saying that the trailer was built before the new regulations applied.

As regards an axle you have to use one manufactured by a company that makes trailer axles like Knott or Indespension.

What you are proposing to use the Jimny front hubs sounds complicated. How are you going to operate the brakes?
Would it not be easier to strip out the diff and use the rear axle and suspension? Used to be common to use a landy rear axles for trailers.

If you keep the fully loaded trailer weight below 700kg you don't need brakes!

 

[Spanner88]

The current regs are that tight it has practically stopped the home building of a trailer.
But you can get around this by saying that the trailer was built before the new regulations applied.

As regards an axle you have to use one manufactured by a company that makes trailer axles like Knott or Indespension.

What you are proposing to use the Jimny front hubs sounds complicated. How are you going to operate the brakes?
Would it not be easier to strip out the diff and use the rear axle and suspension? Used to be common to use a landy rear axles for trailers.

If you keep the fully loaded trailer weight below 700kg you don't need brakes!

Where does it say the axle needs to be produced by a manufacturer exactly?

I have contacted an axle producer (one of the ones you mention) and they weren't alot of help, bit annoying. I told them the spec I wanted, 1300kg braked, solid axle with 5x5.5" (5x139.7) PCD and I was fitting 15x7 load rated wheels and all terrain tyres (load index is correct) and an eye ring style coupling, they instantly lost interest in providing assistance "we can't supply anything for that specification if that's what you want to do" It's mildly annoying their just motivated to sell me £2,600+ ready made trailer that's not even close to what I'm after. I went into a big trailer centre to ask about hydraulic brakes aswel, see if they had any parts for sale like a coupling with a master cylinder for example, just got funny looks "we've never seen that, that's funny what on earth are you doing" everyone very entertained by the idea... I searched later and one of the most common MOD trailers towed behind a landy, literally has hydraulic brakes. I find everyone selling products or services these days, just wants to sell you something off the shelf, and if it's not on the shelf it's madness to even contemplate daring to ask about it, gripes me abit. I see the trailer trade has just become a massively over priced brake drum and bearings replacement network, with a shop full of over priced plastic reflectors, and £700 bike racks. Basically Halfrauds.

I did think about using the Jimny rear axle, but it's not as easy as it appears because it's not fully floating. With the diff removed there's nothing for the halfshaft to locate to, I get the impression from looking at landy axles they were fully floating and it's possible to just remove the halfshaft along with the diff. There is a fully floating conversion for the Jimny and it uses the Jimny front stubs, ends up being nearly four times the price for the same thing, front stubs mated on, not nearly as strong though. I don't fancy the axle sat on a halfshaft, it's not as well engineered.

The parts I've got are from a 2001 Jimny so it has that in its favour. Are trailers before 2012 literally exempt from the whole show and you claim that by the road side when pulled by Vosa, or do they still need to be tested but not as strict?

 

[winchman]

In my experience I would no not build one from scratch but re body an existing one, its often cheaper and usually easier

 

[bricol]

If you keep the fully loaded trailer weight below 700kg you don't need brakes!

Problem being it appears the max unbraked trailer weight for a Jimny is 350-400 kg . . .

 

[bricol]

I'd suggest your homemade axle simply comes under the general construction guidelines?

Going to be interesting complying with the requirement to have auto-reverse brakes with car brakes? And if it's got brakes, it then needs a parking brake, which can only be operated mechanically, not hydraulically.

Surely it would be easier to make your own hubs, or adaptors to run the wheels you want on fully functioning trailer units where all the braking needs are proven and built in? Lighter too, meaning more load capacity.

 

[Spanner88]

I'd suggest your homemade axle simply comes under the general construction guidelines?

Going to be interesting complying with the requirement to have auto-reverse brakes with car brakes? And if it's got brakes, it then needs a parking brake, which can only be operated mechanically, not hydraulically.

Surely it would be easier to make your own hubs, or adaptors to run the wheels you want on fully functioning trailer units where all the braking needs are proven and built in? Lighter too, meaning more load capacity.

This is it, I read that section and got the impression that's the closest relevance across the whole document, no where does it say "the axle needs to be E/CE marked"

I did think about some sort of wheel/hub adaptor but I feel like putting a set of hub adaptors on a 1.3ton trailer was a worse idea and more of a safety risk, not using something how it was designed and putting the bearings under insane stress. I won't carry 1300kg, but if I'm going to the effort/cost of building a decent trailer I may aswel build it to the Jimnys towing weight capacity. I feel like if I can pass having had a pair of hubs made from scratch what I'm intending to do is just as likly to pass.

This trailer IVA feels like something alot of people just give up on straight away and don't bother, but few have actually bothered to test the water and try. There's nothing in the "common fails" guide that mentions axles either, just lights and people who can't bolt a coupling/hitch on properly, I get the impression the IVA is more basic common sense build quality, if it looks safe and clearly isn't a bodge mess with well made components theyll be fine with it...

I haven't spoken to a single person who's actually been to the trailer IVA and witnessed it for the over top insane test it's being made out to be.

The plan with the handbrake was to utilise the vacuum locking hubs on the Jimny so when activated the locking hubs, lock onto the centre of the stub axles, locking the wheels solid. I was going to attach the end of the old CV/Shaft splines to the new custom stub axle with a high tensile M12 thread. The old CV is already threaded. Everything is already there apart from tapping a thread into the end of the new stub axles. I was going to ask an MOT garage if they could test the trailer brakes, see how they perform and add a vacuum pump and brake servo anyway if it was required to achieve the right braking effort. I can see smaller vacuum servos sold for trailers, I get the impression I won't need it with disc brakes though as the braking effort doesn't need to be that high. The master cylinder will just connect to the hitches brake rod. I can see a hydraulic hitch online thats perfect but I'm not sure it's CE marked.

The auto reverse brakes I was going to use a hefty solenoid/dead bolt and relay to activate it, feed taken from the vehicle off the tow bar reversing light wire to stop the brakes engaging when reverse is selected. I see some modern trailers use electrics to achieve it. Failing that, and pending suitability I could also use a linelock actuator/solenoid on the hydraulic lines.

I got the impression auto reverse brakes was not brakes coming on if the hitch is disconnected, it's brakes not activating when the trailer is reversed. The brakes being applied when the trailer becomes disconnected is something applicable to trailers over 1500kg (what the IVA manual seems to say)

 

[bricol]

I do think you are massively over-complicating, and introducing lots of failure points compared to a conventional trailer gear. Conventional stuff is well tested, pretty robust, and works with no a lot of maintenance - and won't need documentation, testing results etc submitted for the IVA test.

There is satisfaction in creating your own stuff - but when it fails 200 miles from home, or has seized after being parked for the 11months since the last trip . . never mind the time taken to do it and make it work, that could have been used admiring the sunset from some remote location.

 

[Spanner88]

Absolutely, I wouldn't be bothering to go to this effort if someone made a 5x139.7 axle.

 

[Turbo]

I've seen hydraulic brakes fitted to many home built trailers and every one of them doesn't work properly and has seized up!

There's a reason all the major trailer manufacturers use either cable or rod operated brakes. It works, is simple and easy maintained.

If you got a standard trailer hub with the correct bore size for your rim you could get it drilled to your rim pcd and move the studs to suit.

 

[bricol]

Absolutely, I wouldn't be bothering to go to this effort if someone made a 5x139.7 axle.

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion - instead of your mate making you a new stub axle, get him to make a new hub to suit your wheels. Measure the hub on a trailer axle, duplicate the bearing mounts, drum face, etc, simply make the stud mountings where you need them, redrill the drum to suit.

A suitable spacer/PCD adaptor plate would be simpler though. If you going to trust your mates stub axle welded/tied on with M12 all thread, then an adaptor will be easily trusted

I've had 2" thick adaptors on the back of my trials car to get the offset of using Sierra wheels on an Escort axle correct. So far, 20 yrs and going strong.

 

[colnerov]

I agree with bricol in that you are over thinking and over complicating. The trailer IVA wasn't to make it difficult for sensible builders but to stop the shonky trailers built on Mini rear subframes and usually overloaded. Like lots of rules and regulations, it's not to stop you, it's to provide a basis to punish you. They don't really care what you do, but if it all goes wrong....

 

[m_c]

I thought you couldn't have hydraulic brakes on a normal trailer?
Or are they just not used because if a trailer is heavy enough, it has to have a mechanical handbrake?

Certainly the only trailers I've seen with hydraulic hrakes have been recovery dollies, but there are specific exemptions for recovery use.

 

[tigdlo]

There are plenty of drums available with the mounting face of a uniform thickness so can easily be redrilled for a new PCD, this is one example, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177121051293

 

[cheb]

Absolutely, I wouldn't be bothering to go to this effort if someone made a 5x139.7 axle.

Is this suitable?

Braked axle 1300kg PLUS axle type B 1200-5 - Entec 1287980, 1550107

BC: dimension A 1320mm, OHF: dimension C 1820mm, wheel connection 140x5, wheel brake type 2051, offset (ET) 26-30mm, swing arm position 25°, 1287980, 1550107.

www.trailer-center-discount.com

 

[Spanner88]

I'll repeat my earlier suggestion - instead of your mate making you a new stub axle, get him to make a new hub to suit your wheels. Measure the hub on a trailer axle, duplicate the bearing mounts, drum face, etc, simply make the stud mountings where you need them, redrill the drum to suit.

A suitable spacer/PCD adaptor plate would be simpler though. If you going to trust your mates stub axle welded/tied on with M12 all thread, then an adaptor will be easily trusted

I've had 2" thick adaptors on the back of my trials car to get the offset of using Sierra wheels on an Escort axle correct. So far, 20 yrs and going strong.

Sorry I took that to mean, make an entirely new from scratch hub using tube and flat plate, I didn't realise it would be possible to safely weld and redrill a hub and brake drum and it be safe? That's certainly easier but is it not, in the end worse modifying something and changing it's type approval? It seems like that would carry a heavier punishment

This is the thing I don't get with the paying to the back teeth to get hold of an older trailer before 2012 then modding it, then you may aswel build one and try claiming the same, there's in reality zero difference

It was only the last 30mm, outside the stub axle and the bearing (not even close to being inside the stub axle) that would M12 threaded, literally to thread the last 30mm of splines onto the new stub axle so the vacuum hub locates onto it, the rest of the stub axle being entirely one continuous machined piece right upto to 67.1mm inside the axle tube.

It's more the fact you can clearly see hub adaptors on something built to carry weight that puts me off, it wouldn't stand up to any scrutiny and it's instantly obvious, not hidden at all. My neighbours been through afew small trailers now and he has repeated problems with the bearings being crap and undersized, even with the trailer carrying it's rated weight, another thing that made me more favourable to the Jimny bearings four times the size

 

[Spanner88]

There are plenty of drums available with the mounting face of a uniform thickness so can easily be redrilled for a new PCD, this is one example, https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/177121051293

Are drums machined or cast? Admittedly my milling knowledge isn't strong, but isn't cast meant to be iffy to weld because of impurities and weak spots?

 

[Spanner88]

Is this suitable?

Braked axle 1300kg PLUS axle type B 1200-5 - Entec 1287980, 1550107

BC: dimension A 1320mm, OHF: dimension C 1820mm, wheel connection 140x5, wheel brake type 2051, offset (ET) 26-30mm, swing arm position 25°, 1287980, 1550107.

www.trailer-center-discount.com

Wish it was but I was after a 5x139.7 that's 5x140, apparently that's different according to Avon ride. I made enquiries with a supplier and that's what they produced (told me it was suitable) it was an Avon ride axle, since spoke to Avon ride and asked for a price on the axle from them and they said it's different and not suitable. Gotta wonder how much difference 0.30 makes

 

[8ob]

Wish it was but I was after a 5x139.7 that's 5x140, apparently that's different according to Avon ride. I made enquiries with a supplier and that's what they produced (told me it was suitable) it was an Avon ride axle, since spoke to Avon ride and asked for a price on the axle from them and they said it's different and not suitable. Gotta wonder how much difference 0.30 makes

Google wobble nuts

Bob

 

[tigdlo]

Are drums machined or cast? Admittedly my milling knowledge isn't strong, but isn't cast meant to be iffy to weld because of impurities and weak spots?

Weld what part? I was thinking of a proper trailer axle kit with drums appropriate for drilling to a new PCD.

Wish it was but I was after a 5x139.7 that's 5x140, apparently that's different according to Avon ride. I made enquiries with a supplier and that's what they produced (told me it was suitable) it was an Avon ride axle, since spoke to Avon ride and asked for a price on the axle from them and they said it's different and not suitable. Gotta wonder how much difference 0.30 makes

Wobble nuts as above or mill out the threaded holes on the correct PCD and fit studs with a knurled shoulder larger than 14.15mm.