Total beginner needs advice!

[RossyB]

Hello, I've just found this forum and it all seems very nice and helpful around here so i joined. I've toyed with the idea of learning to weld for a while now but it's finally time to start. The main reason I want to start is to make a woodburner from an old gas bottle. And to weld up my rusty car!

Im going to a good tool auction this friday and am sure I can find myself a reasonable mig welder there for hopefully less than £100. I don't want to spend too much on it, its just going to be something i use every now and then.

I've been doing some research and it's all a bit too much to take in. So far I am planning to get a 120amp or above welder (so i can weld reasonably thick steel) that comes with as much accessories as possible, eg. mask, gas, torch etc. to save me having to get these all separately. I know it's probably an often asked question, but what should i be looking for?

Thanks,

Ross.

Oh, and I also have contact lenses, does that matter? My metalwork teacher at school wouldn't let me weld because of this but couldn't remember the reason why? He was a bit dopey though!

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

welcome to the site!

For a 'car' type welder that can go to thicker steel I'd recommend the Clarke range...135TE, 150TE, 160TE, etc. Have a search on Ebay for basic descriptions and photos so you know what you're looking at.

Sip have a bit of a dodgy reputation but there are details on this site about what to upgrade to get some decent performance out of one.

Dependingon the type of auction you may find a lot of 'industrial' units around, Lincoln, Kempi, etc, and I'm not familiar with those. But if you can get an advance copy of the auction catologue then it'll give you time to do some research.

Again, Ebay for basic details and photos, ask on here for more details and what any particular unit is like to use. Also look at sites like Machine Mart or the specific welders manufacturers for more in-depth details such as voltage ranges, min and max metal thickness, etc.

I did a welding course at my local tech college many years ago and we were told not to weld with contact lenses as the ultra-violet could 'weld' the contact to the eye. I have no idea if it's true or not but I'd certainly find out for sure if I wore contacts!

Regards
Peter

 

[jrmig]

Personally I wouldn't buy a welder for the accessories that come with it - I'd concentrate on the welder. You may get lucky and get some reasonable accessories such as a mask but I wouldn't base my purchase on that criteria. (Unless the mask was a Jackson worth more than the welder )

If you planning mostly to do car stuff look for a welder that can do low amps - starting at no more than 30 (less ideally). Big is not necessarily beautiful on car bodywork.

Look around the main site, there are loads of helpful advice, hints and even videos to tell you all you need to know.

jrmig

 

[peterd51]

Hi,

just reading another message and another point that I'd missed earlier popped into my head...

double check before you buy that any 'industrial' type of welder will work on 240V, ie, it's not 3-phase (415v) only. There should be a plate on the welder showing the input and output voltages and currents.

Regards
Peter

 

[English Steve]

Interesting point about the contact lenses. I can understand the reasoning about the UV in an industrial environment where other people are welding in the area, so there could be a lot of flashes etc around, but for the hobby user working alone will there be a risk?
I'm asking because I wear glasses which are a nuisance under a mask because the modern lenses are too small, and have been considering contacts.

Any opinions?

 

[clevinski]

I found this online from OSHA (the US Occupational Safety and Health Administration, which governs safety in the workplace). It is admittedly not very recent, but perhaps it is of some help. See http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=INTERPRETATIONS&p_id=19050 for full details. Also see http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/cornea.asp for further information.


October 22, 1982

MEMORANDUM FOR: JAMES W. LAKE
REGIONAL ADMINISRATOR

THRU: JOHN B. MILES, JR.,
DIRECTOR
OFFICE OF FIELD COORDINATION

FROM: PATRICK R. TYSON DIRECTOR,
FEDERAL COMPLIANCE AND
STATE PROGRAMS

SUBJECT: Wearing of Contact Lens While Welding

REFERENCE: Region VII Memorandum dated September 27, 1982.


The OSHA policy regarding the wearing of contact lens in industry is consistent with the attached position set forth by the National Society for the Prevention of Blindness (Secretariat for the ANSI Z87.1 - Committee).

If properly protected in accordance with the OSHA Standards applicable to eye protection (ANSI Z87.1-1968) during the welding operation the use of contact lenses is acceptable. The exception to this would be where the welding process may produce gas or vapors that could be harmful to employees wearing contact lenses.

 

[English Steve]

Thanks Charlie

 

[bucko]

i dont kno how true it is but no doubt someone will correct me in about 5 min if im wrong lol but I herd that the bigger more expensive welders are good even if you only plan to weld thin metal because they have better internals and because they can control the amps beta it will stop you from blowing as many holes in thin car bodies
can someone please let me know if this is true as I would like to know for my self

 

[English Steve]

SOME of the more expensive welders will go down to low amps for thin stuff, but not all of them. You need to check the specifications. The feeling on here is 30amps or lower for car bodywork (some the Portamigs go down to 20amps).

 

[bucko]

thanks

 

[Archie]

While bigger welders from better known manufacturers are likely to have better quality internal components there are loads of other factors determining the thickness of steel you can weld. Most important is the minimum amps the welder is capable of (though wire thickness has an effect also). In most cases the bigger industrial units will have a higher minimum amps since they are primarily designed for welding thicker steels though the higher quality mid-range ones probably would be better than the real cheapies. I'm sure there are loads of people here using Clarkes and Portamigs for bodywork.

 

[Drains]

Re amps - ignore that - check the lowest voltage setting. If the machine will run 15 or so volts then you can weld under 1mm.

Re contact lenses. It's an urban myth, the stuff of panic 25 years ago. Google "contact lens welding" or somesuch and you will see plenty of evidence to suggest there are no concerns whatsoever. Your metalwork teacher needs shot.

 

[RossyB]

Thanks

Thanks everyone, that was a lot of replies in not a lot of time!

So now I am looking for something that goes down as low as or maybe even lower than 30 amps. This makes sense. That power supply issue is good advice also, not the sort of thing I would have thought of. I'm sure all these factors that seem confusing at first become a lot clearer as you go on. I have had a look around the site and the tutorials look very helpful, definitely will refer back to them once I have got started. I plan on viewing the auction the day before so I can do a little research on any I like the look of. Is under £100 as a budget optimistic? Like I say I'm not going to be making a living from it, just little projects for myself.

As far as I have learnt so far, i need the welder, gas, a regulator, a torch and wire. Plus the safety gear, mask and gloves. Is this right?

Also, is it worth trying to teach myself? I'm quite a handy person, I work as an antique restorer and know my way around a (wood) workshop. I generally find a pretty good way of learning things is to get stuck in and get advice where you can. I have found a course that lasts 5 weeks (3hrs a week) which is quite cheap at £70 so I will most probably do that, but it doesn't start until January. My house will be cold if I haven't made my woodburner by then! Am I being unrealistic to expect to be able to teach myself?

I did a bit of research on the contact lens thing myself and it does seem a myth, thought its worth making sure though.

Thanks again,

Ross.

 

[Archie]

As Simon says, the amps thing is really a volts thing. There's a bit of confusion (which I clearly haven't helped with in my last post by referring to amps though I did since that's what is usually referred to around here) but essentially on a MIG unit the power knob sets the voltage. The amps are governed by a load of things such as wire feed speed and arc length. Though the correct thing to do is to check the lowest voltage setting, most websites etc will usually quote minimum amps so, IMO, you're pretty safe looking at either.

As far as picking it up as you go along is concerned I'd say you'll be fine. With Malcolm's tutorials, some practice and a few hints from members if you need them it shouldn't be too difficult.

I would have thought that less than £100 might be a bit hopeful. It depends how big a machine you're looking. Also bear in mind that if these are all used then you may well need to spend some money on getting the machine in really good order. Gas, if you're not going down the disposable route, generally requires a monthly or annual rental agreement so that's another expense to bear in mind. There are suppliers who will do 'proper' bottles on a deposit only. Adam's Gas are one I think.

 

[RossyB]

Thanks

Well thanks everyone, i didn't find anything at the auction but am keeping an eye out. I know what I'm after a lot better now!