Too good to be true - cheap, powerful IFL inverter with decent duty cycle?

[Bill Edwards]

http://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk/arc-mma-welders/arc-welders/ifl-fusion-175-mma.html

£166, or £200 inc VAT. I assume that the welding leads are not included, but these aren't particularly expensive to buy.

All the fancy hot start, arc force and anti stick. 175 amp output, with a very decent 100% duty cycle at 140 amps - more than enough to never stop with a 3.2mm rod, and just about enough power for most jobs with a 4mm?
The seller doesn't say anything about it, but elsewhere it claims 2 years parts and labor warranty and to be generator friendly.
And importantly, the specs (http://www.cornishweldingsupplies.c...d/?d=0&file=custom/upload/File-1358377521.pdf) say it needs a 16a fuse. Many inverter welders require up to double this for the same output, which has serious drawbacks.

Elsewhere it's for sale at £400 (inc VAT) upwards.

 

[MoreWellie]

I don't know anything about the IFL box but I bought my mig from welding supplies direct and they were really helpful, things arrived when they said and all for a good price

I would have no hesitation about buying from them again

 

[BrokenBiker]

all the inverters are prettymuch the same thing. my parweld should need a 16A supply but I have used it on 150 amps (out of 160) and it didn't even think about blowing the 13A fuse.

 

[Bsmith]

If I was after one I would nab it at that price, IFL do the guarantee themselves not the seller, think they are even doing a 3 year warranty on many welders now. I had mine from http://www.migtigarc.co.uk/Inverter_Arc_Welder/inverter_arc_welder.html but can't see the model you refer to for sale there.

 

[Bill Edwards]

To be honest I'm not looking to buy one as, although I've wanted one for years, I can't really find any way of justifying it for my own purposes (almost all my welding is done at work, and I can't see be getting an inverter welder there any time soon).
But, with such a good duty cycle and 175 amps available I can't help but think it may be too good a deal to pass on.

 

[Maker]

I've got an old IFL 200 amp tig welder (so old its not even called IFL) and its still going great, and that claims a duty cycle of about 100% at 160 amps. Great little machine.

 

[Shedendman]

Was IFL called something before,do remember seeing same make look etc but had a green******* badge on,seller did say it was old though?

 

[Maker]

It's a Green 3K / Freeman but its identical to the IFL 200HF.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Has anyone ever actually used any of these cheap inverter welders and found the duty cycle to be as claimed - i.e running say a 3.2mm rod non stop.

 

[Shedendman]

It's a Green 3K / Freeman but its identical to the IFL 200HF.

Thats it spot on green freeman,i did bid on it,but it went way over what i could afford

 

[PTvor]

Has anyone ever actually used any of these cheap inverter welders and found the duty cycle to be as claimed - i.e running say a 3.2mm rod non stop.

For the cheapies, they often don't make much of a claim on duty cycle. They say something like Duty Cycle 30%, which doesn't mean anything without a current, an ambient temperature and a time period. The standard is supposed to be an ambient temp of 40C and a ten minute period, but it's obviously easier to keep things cool and get a better duty cycle with cooler air, so some specify 20C or 25C and a lot specify at less than the max amps, which also gives a more flattering figure. On a winter's day with the air temperature at 3C, probably any of them could do great things by way of duty cycle.

My inverter is supposed to have a duty cycle of 35% @ 130A @ 40C and using it at 110A @ no more than 25C (on a hot day) I've never had the thermal trip go. That's with using it without much thought to the duty cycle, but not deliberately trying to make it overheat and trip.

I think they are tested with a dummy load which can be set to draw the current required, rather than by welding.

 

[Maker]

Thats it spot on green freeman,i did bid on it,but it went way over what i could afford

I pay'd £185 iirc, but I cant remember if that included postage.

 

[Bill Edwards]

When I looked into the duty cycles - some stated as being 25 degrees, others 40 (I automatically assume that with nothing stated it'll be the lower!) I can't help but question how often it actually gets above 25 degrees anyway. Yes, some very hot days will reach 30, but that's pretty hot - and if welding in those conditions I'll probably give out first anyway!
It's not like I'm using it in the far East in summer... so surely they should be OK?
I like the look of the 100% duty cycles on this particular one at 140 amps - so on anything but the hottest summer day I think I should be fine to never, ever stop at 140 amps.
I do just wonder slightly whether the figures are trustworthy though, hence asking for real world experiences.

 

[daleyd]

From what I have heard ifl have a pretty good reputation, but I can't back that up with any personal experience as I don't own one myself.

If I was after a basic inverter arc welder is have one in a flash.

 

[PTvor]

Bill,

The advantage of a standard for duty cycles stated at 40C is that any maker serious about it ought to be able to set up a test facility at 40C, and as almost no customers are going to want to use the inverter at greater than 40C air temperature, there should be no disappointments with regards to duty cycle.

The disadvantage from the point of view of a maker putting together a product at least cost, is that to give it a halfway decent duty cycle at 40C adds a lot to the cost, and as most of their customers will be using it at 25C or less, (and wouldn't be wasting time with anything costing less than £££s painful if they were buying it for industrial use anyway), the makers are not about to put out a product with a stated 7% duty cycle by the standard. A 7% duty cycle is not what you expect from an inverter, it's what you expect from a buzz box, and to be honest, most customers would find that it was a perfectly OK product and nothing like using a buzz box with regards to overheating, at reasonable temperatures and the likely workload.

They could specify at two temperatures and at least two do, Deca and Gys.

I'm sure some makers specify at 20C, and if they don't specify the temperature at all, all bets are off.

Cables, electrode holders and earth clamps (from reputable suppliers) also have a duty cycle, which is often forgotten, and if you buy a reasonable £200 inverter they won't have overspent on those.

I think that IFL inverter is quite a bargain for an item from a quality maker who almost certainly states the specs honestly, even if leads aren't supplied (add at least £40 if they are not). If I didn't already have two perfectly satisfactory inverters, I'd snap one up. In fact I'm tempted to anyway. I wish I hadn't seen this post.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Many thanks for that. I think you've possibly convinced me that, although I don't have the real immediate use to justify the spend, it's too good to pass on.
I'd guess I'd better look for 400 amp cables/rod holders to keep up - most of my work is with a 3.2mm and I've certainly got rod holders far too hot for comfort before, though the ratings were unknown.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Did anyone buy one of these?
Although I have an AC buzzbox and 2 smallish Tig inverters capable of MMA the duty cycle means I am forever switching between welders waiting for the other to cool down when welding with 3.2mm electrodes.
This one came up as it has a 100% duty cycle at 140amps.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Well no feedback but based on the research I've done I'd be happy to get this, the only reason I haven't is that despite the duty cycle making it a great deal I don't have the use to justify it. I was still very tempted.
If you do get one, be sure to post up the results!

 

[Fergus]

From what I have heard ifl have a pretty good reputation, but I can't back that up with any personal experience as I don't own one myself.

If I was after a basic inverter arc welder is have one in a flash.

IFL are based in the unit next to where I work, they have a retail counter which is how I come into contact with them, buying welding supplies. As a customer I've always been impressed with their approach to even the smallest customer which in my experience is pretty rare these days. Whilst I haven't used their welders I have only heard good things about them and should I be in the market I'll be knocking on their door.

 

[tlovatt]

I have the IFL 160MA (Same UK built unit in the plastic casing, not the far east imported ones) and have used it for a few years - it is a great welder and I find much better to use that a buzz box or cheap inverters. I can weld 3.2mm rods at circa 130A and never hit the duty cycle. Everything on the welder feels nice and it came with some serious cables - good CSA, reasonably long and very flexible even in cold weather. I would have no hesitation in recommending the welder I have to anyone.