TIG Choices

[MetalMonkey]

I’ve been hankering after a tig machine for a long time – I’m new to tig but it fascinates me, and seems such a versatile process, especially when you essentially get MMA for free.

I’ve been doing my homework and I think something AC/DC, around 200A on single phase should do just about anything I will need.

I want something I can initially learn and experiment with, but would also allow me to progress to more complex jobs - I don’t want to keep buying and swapping machines and would rather get something up front that would last me.

Second hand pickings are slim round here, and I don’t have the experience to sort out the goodun’s (and more than enough projects to keep me busy) – so I would prefer something new with warranty and ready to go. Budget is around £1500 (inc) but flexible.

Researching, it seems my choices are:

Parweld XTT 202P (or the many clones garla garr 200P etc)

Lots of recommendations on here, my LWS supply them (with quite a mark up) and reckon I can get the warranty done through them. 3 year warranty looks good but I’ve seen a few horror stories when it comes to getting them to honour it.

These units also seem to have been around a long while and it doesn’t seem like they are dying in droves so perhaps longevity is ok?

Thermal Arc 202

Same as Parweld, but the nice option of the SSC pedal but also more expensive and less warranty.
I was almost ready to order one, but having looked about at other options I’m now less sure.

SWA Stealth DigiTig 200

Looks to be yet another generic Chinese, but cheaper. 3 year warranty (not sure if SWP are any better than Parweld in this regard).

Apparently avoids the annoying issues of adjusting the amps with the pedal connected which the TA and Parweld have. Few on here have mentioned the AC arc isn’t as good and tendency to ball up the tungsten?

Jasic 200 AC/DC Digital

Not seen as much feedback on these, pricier than the others, 5 year warranty is appealing but not if I have to have it “serviced” annually.

R-Tech 210 EXT

Looks to rival the Ta/Parweld, with the SSC pedal and less faffing on the controls, but a bit overpriced.
Service seems to get rave reviews, and ability to keep extending warranty is nice, but build quality of units perhaps not best so I can see me feeling like I will need to keep buying the warranty.

GYS 200 AC/DC

Pushing the budget but apparently a step up in quality – not entirely convinced made in France is any better than China, but it sounds like the QC and design is better. 2 year warranty is a bit tight – and given the higher price, it would make dealing with an out of warranty failure considerably harder to swallow.


I’m also considering if it is worth getting a cooler to start with. It would be more expensive but it means I could run one small wp20 to do everything without buying different sized torches, cost would be less to purchase as a package then add on later.

R-Tech, Parweld and GYS all look to do packages with coolers, the GYS one is really neat but takes me nearly a grand outside budget.


Does anybody have any thoughts or recommendations? Is it really worth going for a cooler? Where would your cash go?

 

[hotponyshoes]

What sort of work are you going to be doing with it?

If you are concerned about warranty then it's worth paying the extra to get it from a local dealer. That way it's easy to take it for a service every year (if the warranty requires it) and if you do get a problem you can just take the machine in and make a load of fuss if you have any issues getting it fixed!

If it's a machine you need to use then just make sure you ask the dealer how long warranty repairs will take, if they will provide a loan machine while fixing etc before you purchase!

Regarding the cooler, again, depends what type of work you will be doing.
On a/c at higher amps the torch will get too hot to hold after a while.

I have a cooler for mine and use a water cooled wp17 most of the time. The cooled wp17 is slightly larger and a fair bit heavier than an air cooled 17.
Although the torch never gets hot the aluminium soaks up heat so fast that on some of the stuff I do I can only weld for a while then the part gets too hot to get near so, depending on what you are doing it may or may not actually be any use to you.

I don't think There is any reason to have he same brand of cooler as the welder. Some welders have a interface so they turn the cooler on and off. Some coolers just have a power socket for the welder so you can't use the welder without the cooler running.

I have got independent plugs in mine and quick connectors on everything so I can use it as required and it's easy to change to a smaller torch etc as required.


The swp stealth has various wave-form settings for the a/c arc.
One of these attempts to replicate the transformer style wave and will give you a ball on the tungstan although it's not as smooth as an old large transformer machine.
Use the square wave and it will hold a sharp point on ac nicely.
The stealth has plenty of features and settings so should keep up with you as you progress into trying different things out.
One downside with it is the plugs for the pedal/ torch switch don't seem to be that easy to find which might be an issue if you want to use a few different torches.
Pedal interface is pretty good, you can change the max amps on the machine with the pedal plugged in although I expect most welders would just set it to max and just use the pedal for control anyway?

 

[hotponyshoes]

Also, most coolers are pretty simply and should be easy enough to fix if they go wrong.
I would be quite happy to buy a used one or make one myself. Even if you had to fit a new pump after the first use it would work out cheaper than buying one as part of a bundle /package deal I expect.

Something to note, I have seen a few mentions of people burning out water cooled torches by forgetting to turn the cooler on. I have used my cooled torch for small runs/tacking up without turning the cooler on before but I am not sure if this is a good idea.

I don't know what (or even if it has one) the duty cycle is for a water cooled torch if the cooler is not running but might be worth looking into as you could get the welder and a water cooled torch then add the cooler later if needed.

 

[500e]

I have been running the Jasic 200 Digital for 2 years with no problems it is on long term loan, I have read the handbook\ warranty from cover to cover & not found any mention of annual service, but A. I keep it clean B. I had the cover off & checked for dust\dirt the fan runs on demand not continuously, this helps, I also run a very clean workshop so grinding dust is at a minimum, C.it is cover when stood, can understand Wilkinson being unresponsive if it comes for repair full of filings & damp though.
I know I am a bit OCD, but tools are something to look after, always bought the best I could afford even as an apprentice I purchased an (AVO 8) with leather case still looks like new after 62 years,have never put a greasy spanner in a tool box either.

 

[MetalMonkey]

I have been running the Jasic 200 Digital for 2 years with no problems it is on long term loan, I have read the handbook\ warranty from cover to cover & not found any mention of annual service, but A. I keep it clean B. I had the cover off & checked for dust\dirt the fan runs on demand not continuously, this helps, I also run a very clean workshop so grinding dust is at a minimum, C.it is cover when stood, can understand Wilkinson being unresponsive if it comes for repair full of filings & damp though.
I know I am a bit OCD, but tools are something to look after, always bought the best I could afford even as an apprentice I purchased an (AVO 8) with leather case still looks like new after 62 years,have never put a greasy spanner in a tool box either.

The warranty bit I picked up on from some threads on here - I checked their site and it says in their terms and conditions:

A prerequisite for the full warranty is that products are operated in accordance with the operating instructions supplied, observing the relevant installation and any legal requirements recommendations and guidelines and carrying out annual maintenance work and testing. It is recommended this be carried out by Wilkinson Star Limited, an authorized service partner or a suitably qualified competent person.

Which sounds a little bit like a get out clause to me... A no quibble 5 year warranty would certainly be a big plus point, but erring on the side of caution it still comes with a 2 year.

The 200P AC/DC Digital Mini looks very interesting and potentially a newer design, I think I could live without the AC MMA.

I share the same view on tools and equipment, and consequently get a lot of stick for having "clean shiny tools". But I try and buy good tools and look at them as an investment and take care of them as result.
My view is it only takes a few minutes at the end of the day to clean and wipe them down and put them away, or to get the right tool rather than abusing one - that way they will last a lifetime and be a pleasure to use. Not OCD, just smart IMHO.

I've got an AVO8 MkII and MkIV somewhere, don't get much use now mind, but lovely bits of kit really.

 

[MetalMonkey]

What sort of work are you going to be doing with it?

Mainly dipping tungsten and making scrap I suspect, at least for a little while!

Frankly it is unlikely to get a hard life on the sort of hobby projects I'm going to do initially, but likewise I don't want to outgrow it. I would like to do some thin stainless sheet, exhausts, manifolds etc and aluminium work.
I have one cast iron job which is also going to need some brazing, which might be good to try.

If you are concerned about warranty then it's worth paying the extra to get it from a local dealer. That way it's easy to take it for a service every year (if the warranty requires it) and if you do get a problem you can just take the machine in and make a load of fuss if you have any issues getting it fixed!

I'm hoping it won't break down at all, but I'm resigned to the fact it is likely at some point with an inverter based machine at this price level. So warranty isn't the primary factor, but it certainly is important. I'd like to think a local supplier would take better care of me, but that hasn't always been the case with some equipment (not welding) in the past.

I suppose I'm thinking the more I've spent on the machine, the more the warranty becomes important. It isn't going to be making me money, so I'm not fussed on being without a machine and I can just wait.

I have a cooler for mine and use a water cooled wp17 most of the time. The cooled wp17 is slightly larger and a fair bit heavier than an air cooled 17.
Although the torch never gets hot the aluminium soaks up heat so fast that on some of the stuff I do I can only weld for a while then the part gets too hot to get near so, depending on what you are doing it may or may not actually be any use to you.

Hmm, that is food for thought, it sounds like I might be better off just sticking to air cooled and taking breaks to let everything cool off as I'm never going to be in a rush.

I was trying to avoid the need for different sized torches and consumables, but it seems you get a massive torch free with most machines anyway, so I'd still have to invest in a smaller torch whatever I buy. Purchasing the same brand cooler was more trying to get a better deal than anything else.

 

[Ruffian]

A used r tech digital tig has been posted in the for sale section.

210 ac/dc

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/r-techtig-210-extras.88326

 

[500e]

There is Nothing in the paperwork with the machine I can find, & nothing to say look at their web site, + no mention when it was purchased I am told,it was purchased face to face not by post.
Just read the book again cant find any mention of yearly service, I feel that they are on a sticky wicket without mentioning it in the book that comes with the machine
PS
It is the 200 AC|DC Digi PRO I use,

 

[hotponyshoes]

If that's the 200 stealth welder I think the handbook has a maintenance section and then when you register the warranty with swp the certificate you get tells you that it's only valid if the maintenance has been followed.

I don't think it says the maintenance has to be done by a dealer.

Other brands say it needs a yearly service by a official dealer.
1 year will be the minimum legal requirement, I expect you could argue for longer based on it being 'fit for purpose' but they will all vary so worth looking into if the warranty is important to you

 

[500e]

The machine was registered by the dealer

 

[stuart cox]

Hi all, wondered if anyone can give me any advice ref this TIG welder? I only have experience with MIG welding but want to have the ability to TIG weld. I have no experience with TIG welding but want to be able to TIG weld parts for motorcycles etc, I customise motorcycles as a hobby. I would also like the ability to TIG aluminium so have been looking for one with AC-DC. I doubt I will be welding anything above 5mm in thickness. Anyway I saw this one which seems like it could fit the bill? but as I mentioned I know nothing about what makes a good TIG welder.

I'd appreciate any advice!

Thanks in advance
Stu

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-DC-TI...rentrq:9fd69dcf1680aadc1a0dd781ffe5e84c|iid:1

 

[Richard.]

Hi all, wondered if anyone can give me any advice ref this TIG welder? I only have experience with MIG welding but want to have the ability to TIG weld. I have no experience with TIG welding but want to be able to TIG weld parts for motorcycles etc, I customise motorcycles as a hobby. I would also like the ability to TIG aluminium so have been looking for one with AC-DC. I doubt I will be welding anything above 5mm in thickness. Anyway I saw this one which seems like it could fit the bill? but as I mentioned I know nothing about what makes a good TIG welder.

I'd appreciate any advice!

Thanks in advance
Stu

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-DC-TIG-WELDER-ALI-S-TEEL-Tig-200-P-WITH-PULSE-foot-pedal-last-one/333044225094?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=ca7302f4530848c495e1116648b07e25&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=333044225094&itm=333044225094&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:c2f9289a-24b5-11e9-8193-74dbd18077c4|parentrq:9fd69dcf1680aadc1a0dd781ffe5e84c|iid:1

It fits the bill for you because it’s as cheap as they get.
That is going to be total rubbish in every sense of the word.

 

[addjunkie]

Hi all, wondered if anyone can give me any advice ref this TIG welder? I only have experience with MIG welding but want to have the ability to TIG weld. I have no experience with TIG welding but want to be able to TIG weld parts for motorcycles etc, I customise motorcycles as a hobby. I would also like the ability to TIG aluminium so have been looking for one with AC-DC. I doubt I will be welding anything above 5mm in thickness. Anyway I saw this one which seems like it could fit the bill? but as I mentioned I know nothing about what makes a good TIG welder.

I'd appreciate any advice!

Thanks in advance
Stu

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-DC-TIG-WELDER-ALI-S-TEEL-Tig-200-P-WITH-PULSE-foot-pedal-last-one/333044225094?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160908105057&meid=ca7302f4530848c495e1116648b07e25&pid=100675&rk=1&rkt=15&sd=333044225094&itm=333044225094&_trksid=p2481888.c100675.m4236&_trkparms=pageci:c2f9289a-24b5-11e9-8193-74dbd18077c4|parentrq:9fd69dcf1680aadc1a0dd781ffe5e84c|iid:1

Buy cheap buy twice, I started out with one of those, it welded, but didnt last long in terms of torch hours. It died, no diagram to investgate the fault, no one would look at it. Bought a premium brand machine, like chalk and cheese. You do get what you pay for.

 

[stuart cox]

Ok, thanks. Is there a particular brand you would recommend?

 

[addjunkie]

A lot depends on your budget. For 5mm ali, you will need a 200 amp machine.

The rest is a bit like the blonde brunette debate. Lots of options, but what ever figue you can stretch too, dont forget youll need gas and consumables etc. Then extras too. The selection at the post begining are probably your starter, there are others too.

They are complex machines, you want good warrenty and support.

 

[stuart cox]

What about this....

https://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/tig-welder-240v-ac-dc-160amp/

 

[stuart cox]

A lot depends on your budget. For 5mm ali, you will need a 200 amp machine.

The rest is a bit like the blonde brunette debate. Lots of options, but what ever figue you can stretch too, dont forget youll need gas and consumables etc. Then extras too. The selection at the post begining are probably your starter, there are others too.

They are complex machines, you want good warrenty and support.

I have to keep things in perspective, it will only get used occasionally so I'm a little reluctant to spend a huge amount, maybe £750 for something new!

 

[stuart cox]

This one has a 5 uear guarantee....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WELDER-S...mables:36 parts set WP-26&varId=453086404665

 

[chris pruteanu]

Some folk have stahlwerk for a while... If its appealing to you then go for it! I personally would save a bit more noney and buy a decent make...

 

[Richard.]

£750 for something new!

There isn’t much worth having for that imo if you insist on it being new. If that’s your budget my advice would be either drop the ac and just buy a nice decent dc only machine or buy a used higher quality set if one pops up for your budget.