Spool gun aluminium welding

[Welderpaul]

Never done aluminium Mig/Tig welding in anger. Job coming up that involves welding a lot of 2mm 1050. I am debating whether to do it with Tig or Mig.

We have synergic mig and tig plants that have never been used for anything other than mild or stainless steel, but have the ability to weld ally.

I am tending towards using Mig due to speed, but i am unsure of how ally wire will feed on a mig even with teflon liner etc so i have been looking at spool guns. Will something like this do the job. Do you just fill the girly little spool off a full size one?

 

[madkayaker]

Would have thought the lorch with 1.2mm Ali wire would take some beating my self.

 

[normspanners]

I've done fair amount and have used 1.2 on a 4mtr torch with new liner but found I had to clean the feed rollers with emery tape, if they had been used with steel for any time, not sure if it was steel filings or grinding dust, coz it tended to rip the ally wire then it would pull the minute filings down the liner and jamb , also dont use serrated rollers, for the same reason. Dont forget straight argon btw

 

[normspanners]

Do you just fill the girly little spool off a full size one?

You can buy them but my mate fills his small reels by putting a mandrel in his lathe a brush stale in his hands with the big reel on it and it takes a few mins to fill it you just have to feed it across like filling a sowing machine shuttle

 

[Robotstar5]

Is it worth investing in a motorised torch (push/pull system) for one of you weldsets?

When I've installed robots to weld Aluminium I've always used motorised torches.

 

[Welderpaul]

Is it worth investing in a motorised torch (push/pull system) for one of you weldsets?

When I've installed robots to weld Aluminium I've always used motorised torches.

Is that what i linked to ebay in the op?

 

[Hitch]

Ah, knew i wasn't dreaming it

 

[Welderpaul]

Ah, knew i wasn't dreaming it

That torch is motorised though isnt it? - Is that what you were thinking of?

 

[Hitch]

Here, found one, this is what I was thinking of

 

[hotrodder]

Push pull torch has wire feed in it (effectively pulling) but the spool sits elsewhere and so can be bigger. Spoolguns work on the principle of not having to push the wire very far

 

[normspanners]

Is that what i linked to ebay in the op?

Dont think so I think they have rollers on the gun and still use the big reel on the wire feed unit unit to push the wire to the gun then the rollers there grab it and then push it through the tip my hobart had this system when I got it but it was an auto weld (robot)

others must type quicker than me HA

 

[F.J.]

The gun you posted in the eBay link takes small reels of wire, the push pull system uses upto 15kg reels from the machine itself. The good thing about the push pull torch is that it has feed rollers in the torch head so similar to the spool gun the wire is pushed for only around 6-8 inches. The added bonus being that the wire is also pushed from the existing feed rollers from your machine adding a smoother wire feed. I havnt actually used one myself but I have done loads if research on both as I too am in the process of choosing which way to go for ally welding with MIG.

I am hopefully looking at buying a second hand Lincoln Electric 360s with the LR24 wire feeder for my ally work as this is a Synergic welder with the recommended 4 rollers for ally wire. Although it doesn't come with a push pull torch I will add one at a later date, just using a Teflon liner and 'U' grooved rollers until I do.

Hope this helps and I would love to see what you choose with results!!

Cheers
Dean

 

[Welderpaul]

Thanks all.

If i do decide to go the Mig route, first off i need to see if the machine will do it unaided. If not the spool gun looks the cheap way of doing it although i can see refilling tiny spools will be a pain although possibly bareable to save the 600 + cost of the push/pull gun!

Anyone experience of using these bits of kit?

 

[Shox Dr]

I'd be working out how much wire you'd be using, those little reels can't hold much, so would need frequent changing:losing production

 

[normspanners]

Any body tried one of these they are cheap!!?


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MIG-TORCH-EURO-TORCH-ALIMINIUM-WELDING-TORCH-SPOOL-GUN-/160949305924?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2579538244

 

[Welderpaul]

I'd be working out how much wire you'd be using, those little reels can't hold much, so would need frequent changing:losing production

Yeah, my thoughts too. Hard to say at the minute, maybe 100-150m of weld to run. Mostly butt welds in 2mm thick sheet

 

[Rrunnach]

Yeah, my thoughts too. Hard to say at the minute, maybe 100-150m of weld to run. Mostly butt welds in 2mm thick sheet

Small reels actually cover a fair bit of ground, you will be surprised. 2mm will be a challenge, heat sink at rear will help immensely, if your synergic has pulse, or double pulse, this will make it easier on 2mm matl. I would use 1mm dia wire, with a 1.2mm tip.

Mind those fumes tho, very bad for ozone!!

 

[julieanncharters]

a lot depends on how far you want to push the wire down a normal euro torch.
if its bench work with shortest gun length then u rollers teflon liner and over size tip by 0.2 will be ok.
your filler wire for 10... grade is very soft and will be a night mare if its anything else.
if you have a modern synergic machine run the largest wire you can on a euro torch
1.2 should be fine even on 2mm .
longer gun length push/ pull is the way to go if the job warrants the outlay,spool gun second choice.

 

[matt1978]

As above.

If your going to use the Saprom, get some 1.2mm wire and it'll weld the 2mm fine. You'll need a Alu liner re-tooling kit (about £20) and some 1.2mm Alu U groove rollers (about £30 each x 2 req)

Take out the brass capillary tube out the inside of he central connector and run the new liner straight through directly to the rolls.

Don't bother with a spool on gun, waste of time in comparison. Also Pulse won't work with the Spool on gun only standard settings, so 2mm would be a bit challenging. in order to use Pulse you either need to use a standard type euro torch or a Push/Pull gun, but then to complicate even further you can have a analogue Push/Pull or a digital Push/Pull, analogue are simple/Stupid where as there is very little communication between the two drive systems, where as the digital system allows complete synchronisation between the push and pull motors.

For the job your describing the torch you already have with the correct liner and rollers will **** it

 

[normspanners]

Take out the brass capillary tube out the inside of he central connector and run the new liner straight through directly to the rolls.

Hi I did some improptu ally on somebody else's machine couple of mths ago changed the liner but it was a bit short, I made a capillary tube out of a piece of copper brake pipe and finished it virtually rubbing the rollers with a45deg angle on the roller end, that worked, but is it/would have been better/liner solid enough, to let the liner, virtually rub the rollers ??
thanks N