Smoked my bead roller help needed plz

[Piero]

Hi guys

I smoked the transformer inside of my bead roller

The bead roller is 3 phase with a star and delter motor

Currently I was trying to wire it to my 3 phase transformer based power supply that powers my lathe (I have not actually got 3 phase power running to my workshop, everything 3 phase is run through a vfd except my lathe)

I didnt want to buy yet an other vfd so thought why not connect it to my transformer based 3 phase power supply that powers my lathe

I did nothing except remove my lathe wiring and substitute the bead roller for the lathe

It worked but only after about 15 minutes it got hot and started to smoke

The internal transformer got hot

I did notice there is a 220 and a 380 and a 415 terminal on the internal transformer

I bought it like this, and so guessed to 380v is the right terminal

I did not touch the internal transformer wiring

I only wired in a plug

Can anybody help

See photos

 

[daleyd]

That transformer doesn’t give 3 phase, it’s just a single phase transformer by the looks of it? Without knowing what the power supply is and how you wired it exactly it’s hard to see - is it some kind of phase converter?

 

[Seadog]

The transformer appears to be wired to 380V, if the terminal block you've pictured is the one feeding it. It's providing 24v for things internal, a lamp perhaps?

If you've got the roller in delta config (230V) and the converter supplying 415V, there's your problem.

 

[EM1L4]

I presume fuse F1 blew? That is likely the input fuse to the transformer. I’m not sure what 380V would be for, perhaps US voltage or some other distant country ... you should have selected 220V as you have a single phase supply, (the transformer is from a Dutch company and 220V is standard European phase voltage) I imagine the 415v input would be if you connected it to 2 phases (of a three phase system) I imagine you cooked the transformer as the 380v winding wasn’t designed to pull the current it did... you may find the 220v winding still works, but you should replace the transformer as you have likely destroyed the insulation on the wires...As @daleyd said, this looks like the instrumentation transformer and would not create 3 phase.. So I’m unclear what’s going on and what this device actually is... more external pics would help

 

[EM1L4]

just seen the second picture more closley, looks like a pipe earth clamp is being used to pick up the earth of what I presume is the incoming SWA cable? Bit dodgy...(works but isn’t great seeing as a proper glad costs a few pounds)

 

[carbon]

Without knowing the output voltage from your 3 phase transformer based power supply its a bit difficult. I'm assuming it's 415v rather than 380v so the transformer input should have been moved to the 415v connection, hopefully a new transformer will rectify the problem. I would have thought the control circuit and contactor coil voltages are 24v
Just spotted the coil voltage in your last picture, so the transformer is for the control

 

[Piero]

The motor was wired star
Not delta

I probably did this months ago when I first bought it thinking I was going to get yet an other vfd for it

But then forgot to re wire the motor to delta this morning when I wired it to my 3 phase transformer based 3 phase supply


Opps

 

[carbon]

If it s only the transformer that got hot and smoked then hopefully the motor is ok

 

[EM1L4]

The motor was wired star
Not delta

I probably did this months ago when I first bought it thinking I was going to get yet an other vfd for it

But then forgot to re wire the motor to delta this morning when I wired it to my 3 phase transformer based 3 phase supply


Opps

I’m really confused now, do you have a single phase supply? Is this box converting your 1PH to 3PH?

 

[EM1L4]

Unless I’m misunderstanding, the transformer in the picture is purely to power the contol ciruits, if this was supplied by 230vac and you connected the supply to the 380v coil then It’s caput, which has nothing to do with the star/delta configuration of the motor...

 

[daleyd]

Yeah, somethings not clear for me either - I can’t see that transformer is powering the motor side of things, without some more pics of the setup I can’t see what that box is doing? I presume some sort of control box for a static or rotary converter?

If the motor was connected incorrectly maybe it dragged the output volts down enough to fry the transformer?? Though not sure why it would be on outlet side...

 

[carbon]

I’m really confused now, do you have a single phase supply? Is this box converting your 1PH to 3PH?

The box shown is part of the bead roller and is supplied by a three phase supply of some description so doesn't convert single phase to three phase

Currently I was trying to wire it to my 3 phase transformer based power supply that powers my lathe

Knowing the output of this unit would help.

if this was supplied by 230vac and you connected the supply to the 380v coil then It’s caput,

Supplying a transformer with a lower voltage than its designed for shouldn't cause that damage, so putting 240v into a 380v transformer should just result in a lower output voltage. If the supply voltage is higher then the transformer will get hot and destroy itself. Possibly 415v has been used as a supply voltage and the transformer is set for 380v, not excessively over volt but enough to make it hot, why it was possible to run for 15 minutes before bursting into flames.

 

[daleyd]

The box shown is part of the bead roller and is supplied by a three phase supply of some description so doesn't convert single phase to three phase



Knowing the output of this unit would help.




Supplying a transformer with a lower voltage than its designed for shouldn't cause that damage, so putting 240v into a 380v transformer should just result in a lower output voltage. If the supply voltage is higher then the transformer will get hot and destroy itself. Possibly 415v has been used as a supply voltage and the transformer is set for 380v, not excessively over volt but enough to make it hot, why it was possible to run for 15 minutes before bursting into flames.

Ah that makes sense, I too had thought the pics were of the three phase converter. Should probably read the OP a bit better!

Lower voltage could cause a problem due to higher current draw to compensate for the lower volts (not saying that’s the issue here).

 

[EM1L4]

The box shown is part of the bead roller and is supplied by a three phase supply of some description so doesn't convert single phase to three phase



Knowing the output of this unit would help.




Supplying a transformer with a lower voltage than its designed for shouldn't cause that damage, so putting 240v into a 380v transformer should just result in a lower output voltage. If the supply voltage is higher then the transformer will get hot and destroy itself. Possibly 415v has been used as a supply voltage and the transformer is set for 380v, not excessively over volt but enough to make it hot, why it was possible to run for 15 minutes before bursting into flames.

I was trying to work out the transformer ratio, more volts=more turns on the primary? (On the basis the turns on the secondary are fixed?) also lower volts=more current for the same VA input?

 

[Piero]

I have a transformer based 3 phase supply
Converting single phase power to 3 phase via a transformer and a load off caps

This has successfully run my lathe for years
It pushes out 415 v

The transformer that is smoked in the photos is inside the control box of my bead roller


Someone said (rightly) the transformer probably only powers the switches inside the bead roller control box

 

[Seadog]

Finally

As I said earlier, you should have set the transformer to 415V. Replace it, it's a 415 to 24v tranny and should be easy to find.

 

[carbon]

This has successfully run my lathe for years
It pushes out 415 v

As this is 415v out then the motor should be wired in star, so hopefully the motor is still ok. It should be a case of replace the transformer and fuse but make sure the transformer is wired for 415v in

 

[EM1L4]

Ok, makes more sense, you’d have to look at the wiring diagram (or figure it out) of how the control transformer is wired to the 3ph input...it looks to me to be 3PH+E in other words no neutral... which mean the transformer needs to be wired for 415 (PH-PH voltage) if you add a neutral you could probably get away with a cheaper 1PH 230vac-24vac transformer

 

[Piero]

It has a neutral

But we're it contacts to, it does nothing

The neutral simply is connected but goes nowhere

 

[Piero]

Yellow arrow points to black neutral wire

This terminal is simply a black plastic cover for the on off switch

It goes nowhere