SIP P184HF plasma cutter/ HF tig/arc machine.

[PaulMcElhinney]

Folks,

Frost Restoration are marketing the above machine. It is an attractive proposition having all three machines in one box. Does anyone have any feedback on the machine? I know that some SIP MIGs have a poor reputation particularly in respect of wire feed. I'd love this to be a good bit of kit.

Regards,


Paul Mac, West Mids.

 

[Engineer]

Realistically cheaply made Chinese welding equipment means getting exactly what you pay for..............

 

[FranV8]

As is usually the case in the comments of my informed colleague's opinion, for most of us this is a hobby, and dropping several thousand pounds on the really quality stuff isn't an option.

It is true that some of the Chinese stuff is poorly made, and to compound it further, some of the reputation is further sullied by eBay 'box shifters' (ps - not everyone on eBay falls into this category, but check for returns rules that say "refunds only given for items returned in 7 days unopened" etc.) who give no backup whatsoever.

I've found a few people who've got some great results from the cheaper typical WSME 200 models, but equally there are people who've had these DOA.

Technically I've got a machine made in China, with some oversight/redesign/backup from a UK firm - and it's been great. (It's an RTech) Small problem with a sticking gas valve that their tech guy talked me through sorting myself or I could have them pick it up or return it.

I can only give my opinion on the SIP unit you mention on two fronts:

- Combined machines - it's a bit like buying your TV with a built in video - you're unlikely to get the best out of both components, and when one breaks, you're pretty much stuck. Plasmas are under a lot of strain electrically, I think probably the most out of the electric fabrication armoury, so I'd beware that it's likely to affect reliability adversely. I'd personally go for a seperate plasma. Also, good to see the TIG has HF as opposed to just being a lift or scratch start machine, but I suspect it's pretty limited on the functions that help in TIG welding life.

- SIP - I looked at their machines a while ago, with their characteristic 'green' colour scheme. I found quite a few had signature generic Chinese machine control panel layouts, so I suspect that's really what they are. No one seems to talk of a strong SIP aftermarket response, and sadly the machines are priced above the less branded equipment. If you are considering one, I think I'd start by searching out examples of people having success with SIP's backup, and probably give their customer services a call beforehand and asking a techy question about the machine.

Lastly, most TIG's are two boxes in one, they'll happily work as a arc machine and come with the electrode holder to do it.

So, a quick whipround of the market:

Super cheap generic machines - potentially no or inconvenient backup (helpful but far away Chinese support), some perform ok to well, some don't work out of the box. Make sure you're covered.

Re-engineered Chinese designs - some good machines in here. Not likely to be as durable as some of the premium industrial brands, but can be well supported locally.

Premium brands - into the world of Lincoln, Miller, Lorch, Kempi, the kind of kit that businesses would buy where abuse and durability are necessary. Often a large options list, think of it like you used to buy old BMW's new, everything potentially a cost option and fully loaded the price is eye watering!

Of course there is also second hand, another subject. Buy on condition, and of course the likelihood that a transformer (large) machine will be a less risky buy than an inverter based machine. And of course that the set up is complete, amazing how quickly the bill can rack up if you've got to buy regulators, new torches, pedals etc. etc.

Hope this helps. What do you want to do with it?

(PS - I also have an old SIP MIG, and know about needing to have all the right conditions, including alignment of the stars - to have it do a good weld!)

 

[PaulMcElhinney]

Gents,

Thank you for your helpful opinions. I am grateful.

I have a Jensen Interceptor that requires new inner sills. This is a rather large job on this vehicle which involves cutting away the lower part of front and rear wings, cutting away corroded metal to which the sills attach and then completing a mammoth weldathon. I have read that using a grinder with slitting discs or a cut off tool can result in accessability problems. A plasma torch appeals. TIG welding also appeals. I know it's slow but then again I'm not in a rush and love the appearance of good TIG welds. I thought that the SIP machine might be the answer to all my problems.
I see that it has a 2 year warranty. If the machine performs well in use, given how much the job would cost to have done professionally, it could pay for itself after one successful restoration. Food for thought. Thanks gents.

 

[FranV8]

You'll want to have a look at how SIP would honour that warranty - I just don't know so can't say either way, but if it's a repair job and involves sending it to their repair shop, where is it.

TIG welding is wonderful fun, although it may not be the best tool for bodywork thickness metalwork. TIG involves putting quite a bit of heat into a panel, so distortion is that bit more likely. Just something to be aware of.

For the budget, you could get two machines to cover all the bases previously mentioned, but should MIG be dismissed yet? (Sorry if I've missed that you've got one already)

Cool car by the way. Chrysler 7 litre power, mmmm.

 

[PaulMcElhinney]

Fran, I've got a couple of MIGs, a Cebora Migmaster 130 Turbo (badged BOC but manuf' by Cebora) and a Clarke 100E. However everyone I know lauds TIG and it's controllability and neatness. The only caveat is that it's slower than MIG. However if time is not an issue as it's not to most home restorers then it's an attractive proposition. I've watched a couple of youtube tuition videos and the gentle hum of the TIG torch appeals.

 

[malcolm]

Personally I'd use MIG for car repair. With TIG you need to hold the tungsten in a very precise position relative to the work. That makes TIG suited to working at a bench and not suited for positional work under a car.

They are fun to have but you'll not end up using it on the car shell.

 

[Wedg1e]

One of my dad's customers back at the end of the 70s rolled up with a Jensen 541R one day... he'd bought it on a whim and it turned out the rear end of the chassis was rotten. The shell was GRP as I recall, big engine and an autobox, I think.
I think the old man scared him off with his quote for the welding and he soon got rid of the Jensen... only to turn up a week later with a rotten Pontiac Transam

 

[PaulMcElhinney]

Malcolm,

The real benefit of this forum is when experienced welders impart information like that. The dexterity problem had crossed my mind. Thanks for your advice.

Cheers,

Paul.

Wedgie, I have an Interceptor and an FF. Both require restoration. I plan to do them myself when I retire in two years time. The FF chassis needs work. This is due to the fact that the main chassis tubes run on the very outside of the car ie between the wheels and all the road muck is thrown up onto them. The Interceptors tubes are inboard and are in good order.

 

[Wedg1e]

Wedgie, I have an Interceptor and an FF. Both require restoration. I plan to do them myself when I retire in two years time. The FF chassis needs work. This is due to the fact that the main chassis tubes run on the very outside of the car ie between the wheels and all the road muck is thrown up onto them. The Interceptors tubes are inboard and are in good order.

Ooo, an FF! Does it have the Maxaret system? Can you fix it if it breaks?
Outrigger tubes are the weak spot of the TVR Wedge chassis design too, quite a few people are finding that they need to get busy with the angle grinder soon!