Ride on mower

[Baloo]

well l just cant keep out of the workshop, l was looking for something to build anyway and then my old mower quit

so thats all the justification l need, mower started

 

[Baloo]

right l was thinking of having an underslung cutting deck between the wheels,
l have some bigish floatation tyres on wide steel rims so might as well use them up
might as well be diesel since there are plenty of small car diesel engine and gearboxes kicking about on ebay etc

might as well be 4 wheel drive since l have some sj axles looking for a new lease of life too

and this is what l was thinking about for layout

 

[Baloo]

well that was plan A but its evolved into plan E or F by now lol

l have a diesel engine and auto box out of a lwb suzuki vitara plan was to mount this at the back with the gearbox facing forwards, since the vitara gearbox has a transferbox on the back of it l have a 2 to 1 reduction available if l select low range, l then feed the drive from what was the rear output into a remote transfer from a lada niva, this drops the other way to a suzuki transfer and has another 2 to 1 reduction in low plus a centre diff which is lockable, from this transferbox 2 props go to the suzuki axles, so l have 2 low boxes
2and 2 high boxes so the top speed will be teh orginal 80 mph and in low low it will be 1 mph at 1000 rpm, that should cover it

oh forgot to say the original front prop output becomes the pto to drive the cutting deck either directly or through a hydraulic pump

 

[Ian D]

Thats going to be some mower.

 

[stormin]

Thats going to be some mower.

I also feel it's going to be somewhat long, heavy and over powered compared with most ride on mowers or lawn tractors. In fact it's going to be more high powered than most tractors were upto about thirty years ago, or anything less than a 3 tonne tractor.

Is your lawn that you previously hand mowed really upto this monster? Not trying to criticise your enthusiasm but sometimes a project can get out of hand.

How about running the second transfer box off the front prop output? That would help keep the length down, it would also leave the rear prop output as a potential PTO for rear implements. Probably more in keeping with the size of machin you'll end up with.

 

[Baloo]

I also feel it's going to be somewhat long, heavy and over powered compared with most ride on mowers or lawn tractors. In fact it's going to be more high powered than most tractors were upto about thirty years ago, or anything less than a 3 tonne tractor.

Is your lawn that you previously hand mowed really upto this monster? Not trying to criticise your enthusiasm but sometimes a project can get out of hand.

How about running the second transfer box off the front prop output? That would help keep the length down, it would also leave the rear prop output as a potential PTO for rear implements. Probably more in keeping with the size of machin you'll end up with.

hi Stormin
valid point projects do tend to get out of hand over engineered
lt strated of as a tractor with the idea of driven attachments hanging on a 3 point but l have reined it in a bit and decided to just make it a mower and a tug to pull a 3 ton roller round the paddock, l need some wieght in it to be able to pull the roller but not to much that the wheels sink and leave ruts, difficut equation really as l have previously used a trooper and it made more mess than it rolled out,
the power has dropped a bit as l couldent get the mazda diesel engine and box out of the suzuki vitara to fit and still keep the 72" wheelbase l am aiming for, l have switched to a peugeot 1.9 engine and box out of an ldv pilot instead, its smaller and lighter, and l had one which always helps,
also had to loose the second transfer box so l only have the one now but the ldv box has a low first gear as its a van so that helps a little,

l know l could go out and buy a ride on lawn mower but l doubt it would pull a 3 ton roller up hill and besides thats called shopping wheres the fun in that

made a bit of progress yesterday, welded up a bench to build it on, axles will clamp on at the right distance apart and then build it up around them and lift it of when finished, l getting to much of an old fart to be grovling around on the floor anymore

 

[Baloo]

How about running the second transfer box off the front prop output? That would help keep the length down, it would also leave the rear prop output as a potential PTO for rear implements. Probably more in keeping with the size of machin you'll end up with.

thats a good idea, the more l think about it the more merrit it has, great thing is l could go back to the diesel engine with the auto box on the back,

the rear output that faces the front would always be live as the front out put is chain driven from the rear so you couldent never stop the pto from turning when you are moving
also l would need the diffs on the other side of the mower, turning the rear upside down would be no problem but the front would need the ends cutting off and rewelding once the casing was turned, but all doable

and l spent half a day yesterday cleaning up the pug engine

 

[stormin]

Hadn't looked at your original sketch properly to realise you were intending to be rear engined. Original idea looks good, using selectable front output from first transfer for PTO.
Turning Land Rover axles over was quite easy I remember from days of building rear engined comp safari racers, it was just a case of re-drilling the swivel housing flanges to suit new castor angle. Suspect it may be a bit harder with Vitara axles though.

Are you going for suspension or rigid rear axle and pivoting front?
Power steering or use the pump to power hydraulic lift instead?

 

[Baloo]

Hadn't looked at your original sketch properly to realise you were intending to be rear engined. Original idea looks good, using selectable front output from first transfer for PTO.
Turning Land Rover axles over was quite easy I remember from days of building rear engined comp safari racers, it was just a case of re-drilling the swivel housing flanges to suit new castor angle. Suspect it may be a bit harder with Vitara axles though.

Are you going for suspension or rigid rear axle and pivoting front?
Power steering or use the pump to power hydraulic lift instead?

yes flipping suzuki axles is a bit more involved as the chrome balls which arnt chrome are part of the axle caseing like a lr 101 and need cutting off and rewelding back on again

well it started off as a tractor and evolved into a mower when it was a tractor l was all for a solid back axle and a pivoting front in true old tractor style, but now its a little mower l have shifted back to suspension, l am using suzuki jimny radius arms front and back which are just like landrover front only pint sized, question is how much suspension travel does a mower need ?? l can find room for 3" of up travel ( stuff ) and several more inches of down travel ( droop ) think 5 or 6" of total wheel travel should be plenty its a mower not a rockcrawler

think l am going to replace the power steering pump with a chain or belt driven hydraulic pump that can work the steering cutting deck, rotation and lift plus any other attachments l can find, hedge trimmer ??

cheers Andy

 

[Baloo]

well l managed to get the centre of the wheels enlarged by 5mm so they would fit over the hub on the suzuki axles, h'mmmm they look big

so deep in fact that l for see issues with the steering arms fouling the wheels on full lock, think l am going to have to modify the steering arms a bit, or limit the steering to 2/3 rd's of its orginal lock and have the rear steer the same amount as well ??

 

[john224]

Am i going blind ?? what did the wheels come off ? or did you get them widened as carnt see any where about them,,,

 

[Baloo]

Am i going blind ?? what did the wheels come off ? or did you get them widened as carnt see any where about them,,,

hi
wheels and tyres are normally used on the back of the jcb mini backhoe like this one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSNi7NtouVk

same stud patten as suzuki, diahatsu etc, will mount the tyres today if l get time and check clearence so as l can work out the chassis width and get started on that

cheers Andy

 

[Baloo]

l managed to mount the tyres on the rims last night, bolted them upon the axles and it wasent as as bad as l expected, steering tie bar just touches the wheel rim on full lock, either need to modify the steering arm or make a new tie bar with a kink on the ends ??

Andy

 

[BMAK]

This looks like an amazing project!! One which I would hope to copy sometime. Keep the updates and the photos coming, following with interest on how you are going to engineer this and how it will turn out! Looking forward to seeing how you do the hydraulics as well.

 

[stormin]

l managed to mount the tyres on the rims last night, bolted them upon the axles and it wasent as as bad as l expected, steering tie bar just touches the wheel rim on full lock, either need to modify the steering arm or make a new tie bar with a kink on the ends ??

Andy

Tie bar with kinks on the end, works for my Land Rover 101 and many others with no problems.
Alternative one: Wheel spacer disk to increase the offset.
Alternative two: cut out the centres and re-weld with different offset, just make sure you get it dead true.

 

[mike os]

kinked tie bar has got to be the simplest...?

 

[the snooper]

is this still going to be a rear engine ?
if so why not have the steering wheels at the rear like the tripple mowers it will give you much more maneuverability.
also on those mowers the everything is hydraulic and the flick of the pedal puts them in reverse, the engine only powers a hydraulic pump

you must have a large garden

have you thought about gearing ratios ie
enough revs to power the pump sufficently but on the other hand you dont want formula 1 grass cutting

 

[Baloo]

kinked tie bar has got to be the simplest...?

l like simple, siuts me well kinked tie bar is the way l think l will go,

 

[Baloo]

is this still going to be a rear engine ?
if so why not have the steering wheels at the rear like the tripple mowers it will give you much more maneuverability.
also on those mowers the everything is hydraulic and the flick of the pedal puts them in reverse, the engine only powers a hydraulic pump

you must have a large garden

have you thought about gearing ratios ie
enough revs to power the pump sufficently but on the other hand you dont want formula 1 grass cutting

hi
yes still rear engined, also still pondering the steering might go 4 wheel steer yet that way wouldent need so much steering lock and the steering tie bar might be ok as is

also gearing is not yet set in stone, l did want 2 transfer gear boxes to give me very low ratio's for a low ground speed and enough engine speed to drive the cutters but l couldent squeeze them into the space l have and leave enough room for decent length propshfts
so what l am pondering is slinging the lada transfer box which has a 2 to 1 low range and replacing it with a front wheel drive car gearbox with the bellhousing machined off this would give me around 4 to 1 reduction via the diff in the gearbox plus another 5 gears to play with and another reverse , stumbling block is that most gearboxes are the wrong "hand" and the outputs are on the wrong side, however honda engines appear to spin the "wrong" way which makes the gear box the right way round
l might go this route unless anyone can see any flaws in it ??

 

[stormin]

Only problem I forsee is the torque loading on the second gearbox. Gearboxes act as a torque multiplier so having the first box in low gear means the torque loading to the second gearbox is much higher than it's designed for.

Fourwheel drive transfer boxes are usually a quite chunky item to deal with this, the Lada Niva one is renowned as particularly robust for it's size.

The high torque diesel engine you have installed probably won't do the second box any favours either.

Maybe installing an elastic coupling (rubber donut) between the two gearboxes may be enough to do the trick.

Alternative would be to disable the lower gears and reverse in the first box in the line.