Reading the amusing comments about green & scream

[Guineafowl]

Having been in and around farming most of my life, I‘d comment that anyone who thinks of, say, cereal crops as ‘natural’, ‘healthy’ or ’green’, probably hasn’t spent much time on a tractor.

They get a lot of stuff thrown on them. Typically, glyphosate (Roundup), then industrially produced fertiliser, herbicide, fungicide, insecticide, growth regulators, and, if not ripening quickly enough, more Roundup.

You can certainly grow more calories per acre than grass/livestock, but at the expense of creating an almost sterile monoculture, and a crop deficient in iron and B vitamins (your cereal box says ‘fortified with..’, meaning its mainly starch and fibre, so we added some nutrients).

A well-run mixed farm is pretty sustainable. Some may choose not to eat the livestock products from it, but to campaign for others not to is short sighted, and usually based on ignorance.

 

[James1979]

Some may choose not to eat the livestock products from it, but to campaign for others not to is short sighted, and usually based on ignorance.

that is what annoys me.

I don’t care what people eat. I care when people cannot return the compliment and get funny about what I’m eating

 

[Bornfree]

Some may choose not to eat the livestock products from it, but to campaign for others not to is short sighted, and usually based on ignorance.

Totally agree with this. I have a good mate I shoot with who is vegetarian he sits at the table with all us meat eaters, never preaching or complaining and I've no problem with him, but people who try to stop the rest of use from eating meat I have no time for.

 

[ajlelectronics]

and usually based on ignorance.

More usually the horror of 7 BILLION unecessary deaths every year. I know that there are plenty who don't care but thankfully there is a growing army of feeling that such practices belong in times past.

 

[James1979]

More usually the horror of 7 BILLION unecessary deaths every year. I know that there are plenty who don't care but thankfully there is a growing army of feeling that such practices belong in times past. still a freedom of what we can eat

‘they’ have not invaded that part of life yet

 

[Guineafowl]

More usually the horror of 7 BILLION unecessary deaths every year. I know that there are plenty who don't care but thankfully there is a growing army of feeling that such practices belong in times past.

Sounds like ethics, which any two people could argue about all day. I don’t find you get anywhere with it, generally. Well-managed livestock (as all should be) wouldn’t exist without farming. Would you consider a suckler beef cow’s life worse than never existing at all?

Welfare, on the other hand, is something I’ve been trained in, and is a measurable science. You can have arguments about it with a sound basis, the result of which is the UK’s animal welfare framework, which I would argue is one of the best in the world.

On the ignorance front, I’ve had interesting arguments with many a vegetarian. I’ve yet to meet one who would know hay from straw, or, for example, that all the male chicks are killed at days old in the layer production process. It puts the ‘I don’t want animals killed for my food’ comment on a slightly shaky basis.

 

[dobbslc]

More usually the horror of 7 BILLION unecessary deaths every year. I know that there are plenty who don't care but thankfully there is a growing army of feeling that such practices belong in times past.

Sorry I can't keep my mouth shut any longer.
You're on the wrong forum to keep on pushing this ****.
I'm no wokista snowflake but you can't keep on calling everyone killers and murderers just because we eat meat.
We are omnivores, we have canine and incisors for eating meat, they have been evolving for 3 million years at least.
If you want to eat vegetables only that's great, fill your boots (as long as they aren't leather obviously)
It's a welding forum where we talk about welding sometimes and other mechanical things. Please leave it alone.
Rant over. I need my reflux pills now.

 

[ajlelectronics]

Would you consider a suckler beef cow’s life worse than never existing at all?

Definitely. It is the height of arrogance to bring a life into the world soley to be abused. The "Animals won't exist" nonsense trotted out is just that, nonsense. They will no longer be intensively bred, nor engineered for the benefit of Humans, sheep for example.

 

[Guineafowl]

^^ This is the problem With arguing ethics. Each has their own, and each position is uncontestable. Do I have the right to eat animals? I think so. You don’t. Ok. Where do we go from there? Insults, usually. Woke one way, murderer the other.

Contrast with welfare: A vegan told me she had read (on social media, I have to say) that dairy cows grieve for three months once their calf is taken away. Now, I could get my teeth into the one and talk of cortisol and adrenaline measurements, feed intake and the all-important milk production (which drops dramatically due to stress, within hours) and we had an interesting discussion.

 

[ajlelectronics]

On the ignorance front, I’ve had interesting arguments with many a vegetarian. I’ve yet to meet one who would know hay from straw, or, for example, that all the male chicks are killed at days old in the layer production process. It puts the ‘I don’t want animals killed for my food’ comment on a slightly shaky basis.

I have studied the situation carefully, since I was 16 and first understood what the food on my plate actually was. I eat eggs once in a while that would go to waste otherwise, but only from my neighbours rescue hens for exactly the reason that you cite. I would go without if I could only get those "farmed", even free range.

 

[ajlelectronics]

^^ This is the problem With arguing ethics. Each has their own, and each position is uncontestable. Do I have the right to eat animals? I think so. You don’t. Ok. Where do we go from there? Insults, usually. Woke one way, murderer the other.

I see no insults or aggression? It is a discussion with two definite sides that's all.

 

[ajlelectronics]

dairy cows grieve for three months once their calf is taken away.

Even if you believe (conveniently) that they do not, it is still not something that you would do to a Human female, so why do it to any other sentient being?

 

[Guineafowl]

I see no insults or aggression? It is a discussion with two definite sides that's all.

Words like horror, arrogance, abused, nonsense; three posts in a row… Not insults, maybe, but angry words. Here’s an olive branch for you: —<

Can we agree to differ?

 

[James1979]

I think a lot of the problem is the blind prejudice of some blood addicts; my assistant is typical, he won't even try anything new because he has been conditioned with the "cruelty free alternatives are horrible" prejudice.

I see no insults or aggression? It is a discussion with two definite sides that's all.

The only reason i joined in. You can’t be calling people blood addicts who happen to enjoy eating a different diet to you. It’s a diet which we have evolved to eat! It’s not cannibalism or something

 

[Guineafowl]

^^^ I forgot ’blood addicts’. Those eating Halal and Kosher meat would pause for thought on that one…