R-Tech INV160 vs Clarke 160TM

[LTLRKT]

Hey guys, im new to all this and would love some advice.

A friend has recommended R-Tech welders and from as best as i can understand from reading this forum the Clarke 160TM is most likely what I should be buying.
But since I really dont have a clue, i thought i'd ask so i dont make a bad purchase.
Here is the link to their 160. It costs a little more and the duty cycle looks better (if im correct).


Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

P.S. I will be using the welder for car body work as well as exhaust and other things.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Not up to speed with the R tech, although it does look nice and if money was not an issue I would probably buy it before the Clarke, it just seems to offer more and be a touch more professional.

Saying that the Clarke is what many people use happily for the sort of work you have in mind.

Perhaps worth waiting for some replies from those that know the machine better than me.

 

[octo0072000]

welder

i think you may find it's Chinese inverter welder nice to use but a nightmare if it goes wrong what is warranty like and spares i know migatronic if circuit board goes you might as scrap because the board is half the price of a welder
1 in my local welding repair shop yesterday 8 months old and scrap due to repair costs at least with the Clarke you can get the bits and board is a lot cheaper give weldquip a ring link on top of page talk to him very helpful man



2 years warranty parts + labour but you have to pay to send it back one way they pay return
tell's you not to grind near it may cause plant failure if using generator must have AVR and 5kva plus or you blow the mig

 

[Engineer]

The best possible choice for car welding at a reasonable cost is used pro standard MIG set, which can often be found on Ebay for around £300. I have a Murex which is around 25 years old, and other than a few new torches over the years, and a new earth lead, it has been completely trouble free, and still works perfectly.

 

[weldequip]

If you can find good, clean industrial quality single phase MIG sets on eBlag for 300 quid Engineer let me know...I'll buy em as fast as they appear!

 

[FranV8]

i think you may find it's Chinese inverter welder nice to use but a nightmare if it goes wrong what is warranty like and spares i know migatronic if circuit board goes you might as scrap because the board is half the price of a welder
1 in my local welding repair shop yesterday 8 months old and scrap due to repair costs at least with the Clarke you can get the bits and board is a lot cheaper give weldquip a ring link on top of page talk to him very helpful man



2 years warranty parts + labour but you have to pay to send it back one way they pay return
tell's you not to grind near it may cause plant failure if using generator must have AVR and 5kva plus or you blow the mig

It's a shame you didn't read R-Tech's warranty commitment before posting:

"In the unlikely event that anything should go wrong with your welder or plasma cutter we arrange collection and delivery back to you at our expense and pride our selves on a fast turn around - thanks to our streamlined Technical and R&D departments."
(Quoted from their site)

I've got the AC TIG 161, and a big part of paying perhaps double a cheapy Chinese machine from a box shifter is the back up they claim, and does seem to be evident from people that have had to use it, that there is good backup in the UK. I might need to use it (slightly sticky gas valve) so maybe at some point I'll be able to review the aftersales service myself.

 

[Engineer]

If you can find good, clean industrial quality single phase MIG sets on eBlag for 300 quid Engineer let me know...I'll buy em as fast as they appear!

I think a forum user bought a 130 Murex for less than £300 recently...........but it did need a £5 wire feed pot I seem to remember!

Currently there are 6 pro type 240v MIG sets on Ebay, and I would be very surprised if the tatty looking Murex set makes more than £200. Also an old Oxford set, which looks like it would probably also come for reasonable money.

Obviously Ebay doesnt suit everyone, but for anyone prepared to wait until something suitable comes up locally, and willing to arrange to try before buying, it does present a viable alternative to a new DIY machine.

 

[matt1978]

1 in my local welding repair shop yesterday 8 months old and scrap due to repair costs

I assume it was damaged by the user then? Or surely it should of been warranty

 

[octo0072000]

It's a shame you didn't read R-Tech's warranty commitment before posting:

"In the unlikely event that anything should go wrong with your welder or plasma cutter we arrange collection and delivery back to you at our expense and pride our selves on a fast turn around - thanks to our streamlined Technical and R&D departments."
(Quoted from their site)

I've got the AC TIG 161, and a big part of paying perhaps double a cheapy Chinese machine from a box shifter is the back up they claim, and does seem to be evident from people that have had to use it, that there is good backup in the UK. I might need to use it (slightly sticky gas valve) so maybe at some point I'll be able to review the aftersales service myself.

FranV8 this is from the owners manual page 3 from the R Teck link in the writing in the box
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This product is covered by 2 year parts and labour warranty, you are responsible for costs of shipping
unit to us, we will cover cost of returning item to you. External items, torch, earth lead etc are covered by
3 months warranty. Any faults/damage found caused by customer will be charged pro-rata.
Please read this operator manual completely before attempting to use this equipment.
Pay particular attention to the safety instructions we have provided you for your protection
The level of seriousness to be applied to each section is explained below
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[octo0072000]

I assume it was damaged by the user then? Or surely it should of been warranty

no idea mig looked like new was told 8 months old but board had gone
alloy wound coils again ebay purchase but shop told not made now
so no idea about warranty depends how he bought it and from where from

 

[FranV8]

Fair play - worth a look here though:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26258

So perhaps some contradictory wording?

 

[Engineer]

One wonders whether or not Chinese welding machines which develop major faults within 10 months from new are perhaps best avoided?

 

[jb2000]

There are 3 ways of making things...
- You specify & build in the West
- You relabel commodity from the East
- You specify & build in the East

China works well if you specify completely.
- The first product made will have production components different from sample or items not specified not quite correct. So you get returns, be it washing machine interlocks outsourced or circuit board components.
- The next product made will have had Western repair firm feedback "product repair by product repair" so there is a rapid learning curve.
- It is here where the UK repair capability is so critical because it a) helps the consumer and b) helps the seller not go bust from having to fix the same fault forever. Without the UK repair capability and feedback you are stuffed and should treat the product as "field replaceable part consisting of one box". Boat anchor would be less charitable.

So there is no reason the R-Tech should not be ok.

Some have commented R-Tech sales approach is not ideal, a bit silly because the price point is to their benefit. You have Clarke 90 at £180, then Portamig class at £480, then Kemppi 180 "dial-a-solution" at £855.

If they could make the warranty 3 year it would actually tip the balance away from Clarke and scavenge buyers from the budget end of the market.

 

[octo0072000]

Fair play - worth a look here though:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26258

So perhaps some contradictory wording?

sorry if im a bit skeptic about warranty's but have had to deal with a lot in the past on cars and unfortunately not worth the paper printed on

but the R teck site say one thing and machine handbook another looks like they need to get there act together it also says any user caused problems will be charged very easy to blow inverter board on a under powered extension lead and generator
all good fun

certain well known co don't cover ECU's any key fobs brakes clutches exhausts tyres etc
and engine cover is a joke so engine blows say 40000 miles they will repair the part that caused the problem say cam belt but any engine work you have to pay towards say 40% because you have had usage of it and most claims are limited to either £500 or £1000 pay out a ECU from main dealer can cost a £1000 on it's own

 

[jb2000]

The recent EU changes in warranty are important to consider, they allow pro-rata of the usage you have had as mentioned. Things are not as black & white as they used to be - the UK got a bit diluted.

Inverters are not so common, complex, costly to repair - but light.
Transformers are very reliable, copper is still best - but heavy.

The problem for R-Tech is that any major names could "do what they do" and spread the costs over their entire product range "mass". Such as SIP, Clarke or Sealey. The reason they have not is they do not want to cannabalise their product range, but may do so at the next product evolution if Inverter MIG begin to show cost economics (shipping weight, size, cost of support).

 

[Engineer]

There are 3 ways of making things...
- You specify & build in the West
- You relabel commodity from the East
- You specify & build in the East

China works well if you specify completely.
- The first product made will have production components different from sample or items not specified not quite correct. So you get returns, be it washing machine interlocks outsourced or circuit board components.
- The next product made will have had Western repair firm feedback "product repair by product repair" so there is a rapid learning curve.
- It is here where the UK repair capability is so critical because it a) helps the consumer and b) helps the seller not go bust from having to fix the same fault forever. Without the UK repair capability and feedback you are stuffed and should treat the product as "field replaceable part consisting of one box". Boat anchor would be less charitable.

So there is no reason the R-Tech should not be ok.

Some have commented R-Tech sales approach is not ideal, a bit silly because the price point is to their benefit. You have Clarke 90 at £180, then Portamig class at £480, then Kemppi 180 "dial-a-solution" at £855.

If they could make the warranty 3 year it would actually tip the balance away from Clarke and scavenge buyers from the budget end of the market.

What about the option of building welding sets using British made sheet metal work, and fitting mainly Chinese and Eastern European parts, plastering them with union jack stickers, and suggesting they are UK manufactured?

I suppose they are clearly assembled in the UK, but seems very misleading as customers seem to think they are getting a set manufactured using parts produced in the UK?

 

[FranV8]

Why don't you do us all a favour, and actually talk about what you know.

Read this too: http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/aboutus.php

Perhaps if you read the line "We source only the highest quality components from around the world for use in our machines which helps us achieve a remarkable level of usability and performance." you'd see that they're not passing off their sets as anything like "Made in Britain"

Also, have a look on here and see how many people are pleased with their R-Tech machines. Have a look down the right hand side as to who they've supplied too.

I know I'm sounding like an R-Tech "fan boy" now, but in truth I feel the need because of the way your non commital comments seem to push for an opinion that there's some sort of con going on here.

As well, they have to differentiate themselves from the box shifter ebay sellers (who's warranties normally say something like "if you don't like it after 7 days, return it in the as new unopened box), so need to draw attention to the UK base of their business.

Finally, as someone who's spent seven figure sums of cash in China, I can assure you that they do offer some excellent quality manufacturing facilities, sadly for us now with a much larger scale engineering capability than we have left here in the UK.

I don't know why I bother spending time replying to these posts, I just find the tone antagonistic and seem to have been sucked in...

 

[Engineer]

I wasnt referring to R-Tech...........and if it were not for the greed of buyers outside of China wanting to save pennies on production costs, there is no real reason why Chinese made equipment shouldnt be comparable to anything else made currently.

 

[LTLRKT]

ok im about ready to buy and what an ineresting thread this turned out to be :P

Ok so now ive been advised to buy a bit better than i need, because knowing my luck i'll end up needing it in the future.

So im down to 2 options,

The R-Tech I-Mig200 or the PORTAMIG 215

The R-tech has a 4 roll wire feed unit, and im told this is very important.
But the Portamig goes down to 15amps, as compared to the 30amp low on the Rtech. As i have no experience what so ever, could someone enlighten me on how much difference there is in those 15amps?


R-tech pack:

3M MB25 Air Cooled Mig Torch
Earth Lead
Gas Hose
Mains Cable
Gas Regulator


Portamig:
High quality 3 metre Euro-Torch assembly
Quality, British made industrial 2 gauge argon gas regulator
3 metre quick-connect earth lead assembly
3 metre mains input lead


The Portamig (639.00) is 171 pounds less than the R-Tech (810.00).

opinions? advice? friendly banter? all welcome