Pretty scared before making first cuts in bodywork

[rcx132]

So far all my welding has been easy, just flat bits of metal. Now I've come to my rear wheel arch which is pretty rusted inside. The metal is curved and then it curves back to meet the folded back edge of the exterior wheel arch.

You can see the rust here, probably not that bad compared to what I've seen some people deal with.



I figured I'll have to cut out the extrerior wheel arch to get access to the interior arch, so I bought an aftermarket exterior wheel arch as seen:



The interior arch looks too difficult for me to do. So I just ordered the entire panel for £120. Figured if it saves me three days work to do the job badly then £120 is a bargain.

Still worried about making cuts in external bodywork! The external panel is aftermarket. A friend is scaring me that aftermarket panels are very bad fits. I've already fitted a wing made by same company and it was out by a few mm at most, so pretty accuracy good I though.

If I mess all this up who can I take it to to fix ?!

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Have a read through @Burdekin 's thread about his bodywork repairs [ read 'complete strip-down] on his old Volvo - a fine 'starter for 10'.

 

[rcx132]

Have a read through @Burdekin 's thread about his bodywork repairs [ read 'complete strip-down] on his old Volvo - a fine 'starter for 10'.

Some evening reading then

 

[outofthefire]

I've fitted panels for friends in the past on various vehicles and some of them have been awful and would have been almost easier to just make from scratch. That panel shouldn't be too bad it's not got a lot of curve to it, are you doing the outer before the inner?

 

[rcx132]

I've fitted panels for friends in the past on various vehicles and some of them have been awful and would have been almost easier to just make from scratch. That panel shouldn't be too bad it's not got a lot of curve to it, are you doing the outer before the inner?

I'm only removing the outer to get at the inner. So inner first, then outer.

That panel shouldn't be too bad it's not got a lot of curve to it,

It does have a moulded section at the front, it's not showing in that photo.

If I mess it up I'll have to look for someone who can help me.

 

[Gareth J]

Don't just trace around that new panel and chop out good steel, keep as much original metal as you can while still making the cuts in sensible places. Places you can blend the join easy like near to edges...not the middle of a flat panel.

 

[daedalusminos]

Make sure you maintain a point of reference.

If both your panels are repro panels they will not fit perfectly, and if you go cutting both inner and outer arches out then you will have trouble refitting. In this case and since you have a good edge on the wing, I would leave that in place and cut and replace the inner first. Yes I know access will be difficult but you can then make the inner fit the outer, just tack it in place if welding access is difficult, then remove the outer and finish welding the inner (take care not to distort) and then replace the outer.

If your inner panel is original (and from exactly the same model) you may be able to get away with removing outer and inner but you still need to make sure to keep reference points. You can temporarily tack weld small pieces of rod prior to removing bits to assist in realignment and make sure you take plenty of photos.

I assume you'll be plug welding round the arch flange to mimic the original spot welds - if so make sure you drill those holes before fitting!

 

[rcx132]

Make sure you maintain a point of reference.

If both your panels are repro panels they will not fit perfectly, and if you go cutting both inner and outer arches out then you will have trouble refitting. In this case and since you have a good edge on the wing, I would leave that in place and cut and replace the inner first. Yes I know access will be difficult but you can then make the inner fit the outer, just tack it in place if welding access is difficult, then remove the outer and finish welding the inner (take care not to distort) and then replace the outer.

If your inner panel is original (and from exactly the same model) you may be able to get away with removing outer and inner but you still need to make sure to keep reference points. You can temporarily tack weld small pieces of rod prior to removing bits to assist in realignment and make sure you take plenty of photos.

I assume you'll be plug welding round the arch flange to mimic the original spot welds - if so make sure you drill those holes before fitting!

Plug welding and I decided on a flanged joint using Joggler tool because the metal is warping too quickly.

I'll do the reference points like you say. I've got a six week wait for the new inner arch, so enough time to come round to the idea. In the mean time I'll finish the rest of the welding, some seams to redo and a few patches.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Plug welding and I decided on a flanged joint using Joggler tool because the metal is warping too quickly.

I'll do the reference points like you say. I've got a six week wait for the new inner arch, so enough time to come round to the idea. In the mean time I'll finish the rest of the welding, some seams to redo and a few patches.

What about some of panel alignment thingies [technical term, can't recall the proper name....] which maintain even panel gaps - some on here have used them and even created their own.

 

[daedalusminos]

I decided on a flanged joint using Joggler tool

Mmmm, not too keen on the joggled joint, it's a rust trap and if using a hand joggler doesn't work on curves/corners

I've got a six week wait for the new inner arch

Is it a genuine panel then? If so you might be best replacing a majority of that panel back to the original seams - especially the front and rear lower sections as it looks like you've got a spot welded joint you could plug weld on to. Benefit of this is that it will set the inner arch in the correct position.

 

[outofthefire]

because the metal is warping too quickly.

It will blend in with the rest of a land rover

 

[rcx132]

Mmmm, not too keen on the joggled joint, it's a rust trap and if using a hand joggler doesn't work on curves/corners

Air joggler. I'm willing to give it a go the whole car is made of panels which are lap joint together from the factory, and lots of the joints werent even sealed. The joint will be fillered and epoxied, it shouldn't rust. A welded butt joint just seems like way too much heat for the middle of a flimsy panel.

Is it a genuine panel then? If so you might be best replacing a majority of that panel back to the original seams - especially the front and rear lower sections as it looks like you've got a spot welded joint you could plug weld on to. Benefit of this is that it will set the inner arch in the correct position.

Inner panel is OEM, outer is aftermarket. Not sure if the whole panel can come out as it's overlapped by other major panels.

 

[rcx132]

I pulled it off, phew. It's just fear isn't it?!
I did get one measurement wrong and had to cut a 3mm wide strip to fix the gap between panels.
The joggler didn't get used because it can't get round corners at all, not even part corners!
The aftermarket panel was surprisingly accurate.

I won't post photos as I'm embarrassed of some of my welds. Doing them upside down in a cramp wheel arch they don't look good... but they are complete welds with good penetration so I'm happy.

 

[rcx132]

Found a good simple tactic for getting the best MIG settings for good penetration. I go up as high as I can until it gets to the point where I need to make an effort to stop the mig blowing through the metal. If I need to use speed and short stitches to stop it blowing through then that's where I keep my settings.

Also going to sell my TIG; through this whole project I haven't used it once. I get decent penetration with the MIG and most of the welds are in awkward places where I couldn't manage it with a TIG. I'm also too slow with the TIG so the metal gets too hot.

 

[clift_d]

What about some of panel alignment thingies [technical term, can't recall the proper name....] which maintain even panel gaps - some on here have used them and even created their own.

Something like these?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140689265011

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Something like these?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/140689265011

Aye, those are the very things