Playing with flux core at last

[dannyp]

as I acquired a load of big wire thought I best try some of it out.

Useing a modified butters wf500/4 on a vantage 575. Wire 0.72”. Or 1.8mm ish

Running between 4 and 5 mtrs min. Last weld at indicated 4 mtrs/min. 26.5 volts. But weld voltage probaly lower as eathclamp caught fire.


First attempt


2nd attempt better but still crap

3rd and 4 th attempts

This dragging thing is weird when not useing rods


Last go of the evening.
It’s takeing some getting used to . Think I need to sort a couple of the leads out as it seems to be giveing them some serious abuse.

 

[Monkey Harris]

Not too shabby....

 

[Brad93]

Self shielded?

 

[dannyp]

Yep self shielded. Been wanting to try some big self shielded wire on the genset for a while

Not really done a lot with self shielded and nothing with self sheiled that size. But
Got a workshop that needs makeing and going to have to do it outside and I’ve got about 80 rolls of this nr232 to play with

 

[kptim]

Is flux much more expensive than normal mig wire and gas

 

[zeppelin builder]

Yep self shielded. Been wanting to try some big self shielded wire on the genset for a while

Not really done a lot with self shielded and nothing with self sheiled that size. But
Got a workshop that needs makeing and going to have to do it outside and I’ve got about 80 rolls of this nr232 to play with

are you on cv mode ,are you on the correct polarity ,also drag it like a rod there is some thing wrong to get results like that .ive used this stuff before on very heavy platework 40mm plus thickness
we used to call it (inner death ) rather than inner shield ! due to the fumes it made !
the Ardesier yard in the 80s used it to make large offshore fabrications as you could train up semi skilled quickly to use it , they were called the Wombles

as I acquired a load of big wire thought I best try some of it out.

Useing a modified butters wf500/4 on a vantage 575. Wire 0.72”. Or 1.8mm ish

Running between 4 and 5 mtrs min. Last weld at indicated 4 mtrs/min. 26.5 volts. But weld voltage probaly lower as eathclamp caught fire.

View attachment 156132
First attempt

View attachment 156130
2nd attempt better but still crap
View attachment 156131
3rd and 4 th attempts

This dragging thing is weird when not useing rods

View attachment 156133
Last go of the evening.
It’s takeing some getting used to . Think I need to sort a couple of the leads out as it seems to be giveing them some serious abuse.

something not right there
maybe polarity ,are you on CVmode ?

nothing makes fumes like that wire
its known as (inner death ) in welder jargon

 

[TechnicAl]

Innershield NR232 ???

 

[TechnicAl]

Noticed youve already mentioned it......Take a look at this
https://www.lincolnelectric.com/ass...lded-Innershield-InnershieldNR-232/c32400.pdf

page 62 onwards are interesting

In 232 theres a 1.7mm and a 1.8mm so you think why? |They are different fill compositions so that 1.8 is better vertical and 1.7 is better flat...sounds wrong way round...im hoping Ive remembered correctly

The other thing is that with SSFCW you lose 20 or 30% so the 1.8mm seems big but its really only putting down similar amounts of metal as a 1.2mm solid....maybe even a 1.0mm solid....

 

[dannyp]

Thanks for that. Think I know what need to do now to get it burning right.

I’ll check indicated and actual feed rates and sort a couple of poor lead joints out and have another go.

Yes it dose fume something special. Air fed mask will be out I think. Have got the polarity correct at least drag angel and stick out not so correct

 

[TechnicAl]

Thanks for that. Think I know what need to do now to get it burning right.

I’ll check indicated and actual feed rates and sort a couple of poor lead joints out and have another go.

Yes it dose fume something special. Air fed mask will be out I think. Have got the polarity correct at least drag angel and stick out not so correct

You can extract the fume on torch....if you have the kit....it wont affect the weld........"self shielded" is a misnomer really........it can cope with the ingress of the atmosphere and use it to advantage....in fact, if you reduce the Nitrogen you will get a weaker weld.....Ive known people use a shielding gas and then complain that its not so good...it wont be as its not designed to use a gas

 

[dannyp]

Had a bit more of a play with it think I’m starting to get the hang of it think another few goes with it and be ready to duff the shed together,

Challenge will be keeping the torch cool

 

[Sarto]

Hi to all.

A fast question for @TechnicAl :
In the lincoln booklet they explain the motives about thickness restrictions for nr 211 mp
general use wire, then:

If joining plates of different thickness, ALL the plates should be
within the maximum thickness restriction. The plate thickness
restrictions also apply regardless if making single pass or multiple
pass welds.

Why the wire suffer in multipass welding (red phrase)? Shouldn't the next pass improve the metal
microstructure, thus eliminatin the problem?

Have a nice evening.

Sart0

 

[TechnicAl]

Some of the ingredients that help with the self shielding also make the weld brittle (relatively)....on a multi-pass weld the second layer makes the first layer even more brittle and the 3rd layer does the same to the second and the first. Therefore the data sheet should say restricted to 3 layers rather than 10mm plate.
Obviously this embrittling effect is the opposite to the normal....the NR211MP weld metal contains intermettalic compounds of Nitrogen which embrittle the weld metal....the heat from subsequent passes increase the amount of these compounds.

PS self shielding is really a misnomer......they actually allow the atmosphere to affect the weld but contain elements that will absorb the atmosphere gases, mainly Nitrogen.

 

[Seano]

Is flux much more expensive than normal mig wire and gas

OP will be working outside, so gas isn't an option.

 

[dannyp]

Yes. Very much

It’s working well for me at the moment new ish ( well better ) brushes in the wire feed motor, And went through my cables and earth clamp. Welds much more consistently now I think it was fine pushing 1.2solid wire but the flux core was working it that bit harder so the constant speed feeder wasent so constant. Re doing the ends on a few cables that were getting warm and it now welding much nicer with setting much closer to what the data sheet suggests.

If I’m working indoors or with reasonable shelter I use gas there’s a lot less smoke and I prefer solid wire in a lot of ways. For welding outside Ona rough gestumation flux core and gas shieled work out near enough the same I think. As in the past I have used crazy amounts of gas in a day in sub optimal conditions.

Problem is I really need to find a better torch ideally air cooled that can put up with the flux core. Useing a water cooler is proving to be a pita , think it’s ether a torch more designed for the job or build a water cooler into the feeder

 

[Jim Davey]

Lincoln do a selfshield specific torch called a Squirt Gun. It’s a very robust piece of kit and well suited to the rigours of site use.
You may need a specify that it needs a Euro connector or adaptor as they often come with a male barb type connector that fits a specific female torch connector on Lincoln site feeders like the LN25.

Alternatively a heavy torch like a Binzel abimig 455 will cope admirably and there are a range of neck angles and lengths to choose from as they are interchangeable.

 

[dannyp]

If I ever come across an ln25 or simalar at right money probaly grab one

 

[dannyp]

Out of interest how do the abimig455 torches cope without gas to cool them ?

The MB36 overheats very quickly tho occasionally I get a free one from work when they start blowing gas back into the wire feed rendering them useless there so I have a supply of half worn disposable torches I have thought about loosing the shroud and running air through them for a bit of cooling

 

[Jim Davey]

They hold up very well. Especially with the M10 (10mm) HD tips.

 

[henry Kadzielski]

^^^ There are silver coated versions as well, which help in the prevention of sticking and spatter attachment. Quite a bit more funds though. I used my 455t to do hard facing and took the shroud off. With it off you can see much better what you are doing