Planning and scheduling in a Jobbing shop

[chap]

Hi, i'm looking for some pointers from those with experience of planning in a production environment..

As part of my Personal Development Review, i've been asked to draw up plans for implamenting a kind of process planning system, to get a better handle on the workload that the workshop is under and alow us to predict completion points for jobs.

It's a toolroom with a varied profile of jobs; say from 60 off turning production runs, to one off tuned, welded and milled ali fabrications. Triming and punching jigs and fixtures. Tooling repair, and the odd 2nd ops process that's too large to run in the Second Op's department.

At the moment, we have a job list for production jobs that the sales head prioritises, things change daily and we never get beyond fire-fighting!

Sitting down with my manager, we have discussed doing process planning on each job as it goes from sample to production run, so sales has something more than a figure they've plucked from thin air as to how long/cost of the job. Creating a Works Order template. Schedule for man-hours capacity.
Together this should give everyone a much clearer picture as to what we can make for when.

At the mo i'm drafting a spreadsheet to predict process times, material and tooling cost.
Need to think about the info the Works Order needs to contain too. Eventually we (I) want to have a largly computerised system, so we can live track where we are.


Any coments/input would be gratefully recieved.
Thanks for reading
Nathan

 

[danelectro]

Hi Nathan,

Well I don't envy you for a start!!!! I was a production manager for a few years, very stressful!! The main stress was the sales team forever changing priorities, never a day went by without some intervention.
We eventually used a computerised system linked with Sage accounts, this would give a bill of materials, scheduling, in fact everything, but the problem still remained that the sales manager forever changed the priorites. As I was on the production side of things I could never understand why the customer couldn't be told by sales that the leadtime would be this and stick to it. As it turned out, the sales team would make silly promises instead of telling the customer the truth. 99 % of the time the customer was happy to be told from the outset that the leadtime was going to be "this date" AND, if there was a problem, the said customer would also be happy if he were told, after all things do go wrong sometimes.
The point was raised that there was a good chance of not getting the business if we couldn't do the work in such and such time. The other side of that coin is telling someone you Can do it in the alloted time, then failing to achieve it, thus p**sing off the customer, and never seeing them again!

as for process times, well you can only go on historical data, we spent months tracking jobs, timing them (including P**s breaks etc) and allowing for potential problems, it took a long time, but i think we got there in the end!!

might be worth getting some "experts" in see what they think.

Sorry probably not very helpful to you, but felt the need to add my bit!!!!

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

Is this any use ?

I am now medically retired & have been out the employment loop for a slack handful of years, things might have changed but my experience tells me to look at these areas for inspiration and depth of your task .

Note well

I suffer a bit from both forms of dyslexia as a result of old age, injury , inattention and side effects of medication & occasionally alcohol, so bear with me if the nimbers are not kosher and the worms are spelt rong

Here goes...

A fully intigrated system that crosses departments treads on many toes , flattens big egos and upsets many , it disturbs the empires of Kings ,Queens & Prima Donna's in any organisation , so a total company comittment for survival and better incomes is essential, from the cleaner to the MD and their dog .

I have done accounted time costed time slot programmed fabrications & repairs to some qiute complex equipments & machinery for nearly 30 years .

I reached middle/senior management , our workshop had over 160 mechanics, electricians, metal smiths , welders , instrument technicians , electronic tradesmen , a cleaner & three clerks , four production control & planning office staff & a home fleet of 48 vehicles etc.

Whereby we had standard codes for each operation, after several years each code was allotted a time and an average cost , included in this coded time was an element for consumables and a time for things like going to the stores , taking a pee, paper work .

There are a lot of things in this area so dig deep but don't try and make your staff become machines or morons as they are you best assets.

It worked well but in the days of paper estimates rather than computer costings it was a bit laborious and prone to mistooks.

You should be able to build spread sheet code sets by modules of operation then split each operation down into sub sets if needed, sometimes numbering each subset.. I take it you will, be using work books that you can quickly flip between areas rather than one gi-normous single sheet .

Try and build the spread sheet alphabetically in general names of operations and repetative jobs /orders that your company has undertaken & sucessfully completed , each letter being divided alphabetically and then to 1000 sections and each subsection divided into subsections then if needed each of these divided into 1000

See if you can undestand this :-
AA3000/0240/3610/0004

AA3000 is remove & replace the widgit on the wassit , to rectify a noisy and underperforming Pharp out in the nadger
AA 3000/240 is repair the widgit on the wassit

AA 3000/0382 is remove & refit the wigit

AA 3000/0240 /3610 is fabricate, renew or adjust the Pharp on the nadger

AA3000/0240/3610/0002 is setting up a pharp before attaching it to the nadger.

AA 3000/0240/3610/0004 is modify the pharp to a new fully costed standard



This would be a specific costed operation in a group contained in a whole job. You might find that that you also need to consider that differing job sizes need differing codes & price for each task depending on the size and complexity of the task

EG.
Changing a gear box on a mini is less cost and time than changing the gearbox on a 30 tonne lorry mounted crane used in a fuel depot that has 6 x 8 wheel drive and has a full electrical earth return system .


You can then take the whole completed group cost at 0240 by the adding of 361 and its family subset operation costs. and then by adding 240 subset costs to the complete AA3000 operation etc.

Obviously you will lock the sheets and restrict alterations & new input to those authorised and capable ..saw a brill UK wide set up in BT totally wrecked days after it was made available because it was not correctly locked .

That way you will very quickly be able to hit the task areas needed and just run on the short code given by AA3000 providing it always contained all the elements of the costing


We had to look at costs, skills and process in small module form such as weld three inches of metal, different weld type for it , undoing nuts & bolts , tightening them, bespoke gasket making , walking to the steel racks .changing gas bottles ,it is an enormous list .

All our figures were accounted for in 6 minute periods because humans & the computers work well on it but if you are a dab hand & have the time you can programme it for seconds , minutes and hours etc .

So say
Remove gearbox on a 15 tonne rigid lorry, permanantly mounted concrete mixer .

Your customer .... is directed that it is a sound thing to change the clutch plate and bearing whilst the gear box is out, as the clutch has done 84 thousand miles , that there may also be a reface of the flywheel , but that will only occur if found in need at the strip down ,customer to be advised.

( but put the cost into the initial assessment price as you can always subtract it or use it to help cover unforseen probs. There are ALWAYS unforseen costs ,be they gasket glue or a new replacement welding flux that costs more etc.etc, ) .

Here are some of the timings that should attract a standard hourly labour rate as well as the total parts cost for the job.

This is for an imaginary gear box again.

Job number can be as many sections as you like for instance
AA /1067/ 1000 / 6593 /034 / 325

AT is the first alphabetical letters of the customers prominent name in the address od "Atkins" Ltd of 32 Blogg Street, Attingham , Olhand , ZQ 12 3HP
1067 gives you the customer account

1000tells you the details of the vehicle & w
6539 is the job number
034 is who did the estimate
325 is the date the estimate was done using a running date number for the year rather than weeks & months ( it is useful to calculate how long things have been awaiting work .in hand , under work and awaiting spares /completion etc.

This gearbox.......

Code GB 03 would have been 0.7 hr removal & 0.8 hr replacement of the gear box ,
code CL 4 wash & clean 0.3 ,
GB 45 / 34 specific to that typeof gearbox ,strip & reassemble
code GB 06 replace first motion shaft,
code GB 27 replace first motion shaft bearings ,
code GB 48 replace rear output gearbox oil ,
code CL 03 remove clutch ,code
CL 46 remove & replace clutch plate
(repair time according to the diagnosed fault can again be split into elements if needed , ,
RT 4 finally 0.4 vehicle road test.

The list I have given is not exhaustive so all you maniacs out there who realised I have missed out a couple of significant time consuming operations don't get stroppy and burn the key board in my direction .

If you have had stock in store for more than a couple months you will need to have an inflation element added . If you have to order it in you might have to get a price and add your interest & commission .

Don't forget to add things like the element of average hourly cost per hour of all the every day consumables that the company has used in the last few accounting periods/years . Don't forget inflation of cost either ..true inflation that the business experiences not the governments rubbish figures.

The more you can standardize into timed & costed modules of operations the more accurate you get on costings don't forget that over a year there are the proportional amounts of the company's fixed and variable running costs to add to each hour of estimate ... lots of business fail to take these properly into account and end up down the pan three or four years later.

One thing you can do if you are on penalty payments for late completion is to allow those in hand to fail if needed but any new orders are started ontime for the schedule to get to agreed completion and progresses as if there was no back log .

If you leave things in a queue when things are behind everything else in the queue is likely to be late as well and cost you dosh. Same thing if you allow jobs to queue jump in "fire fighting priorities" .

As part of setting up your costings & planning reviews if you have enough input/authority ..... If a job is certainly going to fail completion and incur a single set penalty don't waste overtime on it , let it fail and take time to complete if on balance the cost is cheaper all round.

One big international company I know of religiously gave out lots of overtime to get all jobs done ( most were weeks behind agreed completion dates ) but they never ever tried to do anything about it for years & years .... it cost them millions.

Take an in depth look if it would incur running penalties. It may still be cheaper to pay the penalties than waste effort and money or bust a gut in overtime when you have new correctly programmed and better costed jobs in the pipe line.





I doubt that you can get any standard cost unit from anywhere other than your company , so you will have to go back several years and deeply analyze each job , the price and the companies running costs. I do not envy you for you will never be able to do it on your own it will take a team of you with lots of brain straining sessions to even get the basic heading down and in the correct order.

Saying all that, see if you can get any of the joint industries board costings for ideas & knowledge growth .

Insurers assessors have this sort of unit costing down to an absolute " T "
rarely do they pay for more than the asssessors original estimates.

Quite often it is good to work backwards from your known and see what you can deduce from the known end result and then delve into each area that you discover helped the complete end result.

What ever figures you end up with add a correction factor then a bit more so that you can tell the customer if a decision is agreed by such a time you can save them X amount because it will fit into your work schedule better.

The better you get the better the company becomes, but you will always find that someone somewhere is happy to undercut your price ... you do not always want those customers that are going on price alone ,so see if you can put financial figures on this, develop a USP and the ensuing customer care.

After pricing ,always add a percentage of the estimated time for the job on so that you can often say to the customer , we have pulled out all the stops, your job is looking to be completed on X Day three weeks ahead of schedule etc.. Not only does this look good it gives you a wee bit of breathing space if needed and time slots for other quick low priority jobs.



If your sales dept. keeps changing the price and time scale, making pie crust promises without a full review start looking for new sales people as their knowledge ,selling and inter-person skills are lacking.

The system
If you design your system for the Rolls Royce total care for an aircraft situation you can eventually reduce some things for a rusty skoda .
But if you do it the other way round you will be losing money hand over fist.

Once you have designed the system /mode of operation it is very very expensive and time consuming to alter or replace it at a later date.
So do lots & lots of homework and make notes.. lots of them as you draw up your scheme , be prepared to alter things providing it is backed up with fully reasoned out sound commercial/production needs.

I have seen quite alot of systems /schemes stuck in the financial drain/trash can because people are too stubborn to change for the better, because it was their baby or people were not empowered /allowed to say anything about it. Many were unwilling for what ever reason to offer their input in " us & them situations / companies ".


Please report back in three ,five and ten years
regards
David

 

[chap]

Thanks for replying folks.

The trouble is that 99.99% of jobs will never be repeated, so there's no historic data. It's all gonna have to be estimated processing times (I guess i'll become more accurate the more practise i get!)
Basically, what we have at the moment is a pending job list, but no idea how long each job will take. So it's unknown how many hours/days/weeks work are on the list!

This is the spreadsheet that i've put together for estimating process times(with a job example).
Does it look like i've missed anything off it?

What's gonna take time is sitting and thinking each job through to work out the processing steps envolved, but i think it's worthwhile doing

 

[bill_gj]

I was a Methods Engineer in the aero industry many years ago - method and process planning, a bit of jig & tool design, estimating, work study - all that.

Does anyone recognise the terms 'work study' or 'industrial engineer' any more?
It was that function that worked out stuff like
- what processes and skills were required
- what the associated overhead rates were per process
- what machines were needed
- how long the steps of each process took
- how to factor in all the **** breaks, tea breaks, relaxation allowances, unscheduled machine downtime, etc, etc

For jobs that were short runs, 'one-offs' and so on, the cost estimate for manufacturing was based on defining a detailed process plan, breaking it down into standard activities and then referring to a standards book that had been built up, via real work studies over years. The standards (or synthetics) book would have times for things like:
- load to chuck, 3 jaw
- load to collet
- load to fixture
- centre drill
- clamp/fasten
- mill (by cutter, by length of cut)
etc, etc.
Set-up times were also included as someone has to cover this cost, then lastly the cost of material, sometimes it was 'at cost, and sometimes uplifted if it was exotic stuff that had min order issues or was difficult to get and so on.
All basic standards/synthetics would be multplied bay a difficulty factor related to the diameter/length/mass of the workpieces.

In short - Excel is great but the usual rule of Garbage in = Garbage out applies, you MUST understand the processes and associated costs in detail in order to get a competitive quote that keeps you in business and the Customer coming back.

 

[Shox Dr]

A fully intigrated system that crosses departments treads on many toes , flattens big egos and upsets many , it disturbs the empires of Kings ,Queens & Prima Donna's in any organisation , so a total company comittment for survival and better incomes is essential, from the cleaner to the MD and their dog .


Snip a lot of sound advise.

Been there done it, worked for myself for 20yrs. I packed it all in a started to work for someone else, 4 yrs later and 2 past employers Im going back to work for myself. Why... just read the above.

Sound words David, Sound words indeed.

 

[chap]

...For jobs that were short runs, 'one-offs' and so on, the cost estimate for manufacturing was based on defining a detailed process plan, breaking it down into standard activities and then referring to a standards book that had been built up, via real work studies over years. The standards (or synthetics) book would have times for things like:
- load to chuck, 3 jaw
- load to collet
- load to fixture
- centre drill
- clamp/fasten
- mill (by cutter, by length of cut)
etc, etc.
Set-up times were also included as someone has to cover this cost, then lastly the cost of material, sometimes it was 'at cost, and sometimes uplifted if it was exotic stuff that had min order issues or was difficult to get and so on.
All basic standards/synthetics would be multplied bay a difficulty factor related to the diameter/length/mass of the workpieces.

In short - Excel is great but the usual rule of Garbage in = Garbage out applies, you MUST understand the processes and associated costs in detail in order to get a competitive quote that keeps you in business and the Customer coming back.

Hmm, that's interesting. I think it's the next stage on from where my spreadsheet is.

Maybe i should have said; the function of the toolroom is to support the production mould shop, which is where the money making business is.