Own Business

[Ratty]

I'd bet a pound to a penny he was deliberately trapped.

I wouldn't be at all surprised. There are some right devious slimy b@$tards out there, it's especially bad if you are a trusting sort of person and look to see the good in people.
I've been badly ripped off myself - I'll bet everyone who's ever been in business has had bad debts/nasty clients at some point, but I'd still rather be ripped off then be permanently cynical. Being cautious is one thing, distrusting everyone just makes you miserable.

 

[Robotstar5]

There are some right devious slimy b@$tards out there

My old boss used to have at least 2 companies running so he could fold one and the other would buy the stock at a good price, leaving all the creditors with nothing.

 

[mishka]

WHAT??? Courses? Get in the real world and stop wasting everyones time.

Thanks, I'll bear that in mind. In my case they were mostly contract courses at work, part of project management courses. The general advice being "get legal to check it before you sign". Also applied to NDAs.

Exactly. Whatever is agreed is in writing and signed by both parties - even if it's a drawing on the back of an envelope with a price scribbled down..that's a contract. I think Mishka misunderstood.

No, I understand the issues. The interesting bit comes when something goes wrong and you have to prove to a judge that what was written, even on a scrap of paper, is what was intended. Man-on-Clapham-omnibus and all that.

 

[snowcat]

Very rarely do things get writen down when I do a job, Its all a bit "about this long so big, do what you think, rougth price? err i leave that too you" maybe Iv just got decent customers or Im lucky, ether way I cant imagine the construction boys being too happy if before I turned a couple of pins up, or welded a bucket, I produced a writen contract...

 

[MrFluffy]

To round out my point, IF you are doing high-value high-risk work THEN yes, it is worth getting a contract drawn up, if nothing more than to protect your own ar$e if things go wrong or the customer starts getting ugly. In which case the cost of drawing up the contract is part of the cost of the job. And don't, whatever you do, sign anything that you haven't had a professional read over and go through the gotchas (a contract is simply a list of gotchas in an unreadable font).

Something else, your Public liability insurance (which you had better have) will be useless if your on a clients site without a contract. At least mine is (and is noted as such in the terms and conditions).
I wont set foot onsite without a pre issued legally binding contract, and in the past have arrived but refused to enter the machine room for a few days while the paperwork which was "lost in post" was reissued.
Its part of being professional.

 

[Drains]

Very rarely do things get writen down when I do a job, Its all a bit "about this long so big, do what you think, rougth price? err i leave that too you" maybe Iv just got decent customers or Im lucky, ether way I cant imagine the construction boys being too happy if before I turned a couple of pins up, or welded a bucket, I produced a writen contract...

That's another thing... Know Your Customer!

Although Snowy, these days as the world and his dog has email, and as your construction boys will be doing paperwork with everyone except you by now, all you do is fire off an email detailing the work (turning up pins, welding a bucket) and they fire it back with a "yes, thanks mate", and everything is groovy.

Unless of course you make up the prices after, and they accept them, and everybody works on trust, in which case we get back to know your customer again

 

[Welderpaul]

Very rarely do things get writen down when I do a job, Its all a bit "about this long so big, do what you think, rougth price? err i leave that too you" maybe Iv just got decent customers or Im lucky, ether way I cant imagine the construction boys being too happy if before I turned a couple of pins up, or welded a bucket, I produced a writen contract...

Some of the animals we do business with would have your eyes out if it was done on a nod and a wink.

Most of my emails these days begin with: Dear Sir, we wish to confirm our telephone conversation/conversation on site today.......

It's all good stuff - keep going, i'm listening!

 

[malcolm]

What are you doing at the moment and what do you want to do in your own business? Not sure you've mentioned that in this thread and the guys have been through the generic stuff well.

Though did anyone mention being ripped off by dodgy clients. I wrote off nearly £10k in the summer due from a respectable automobile manufacturer (proper contract and everything, but fudgy terms). Still pushing it but not hopeful - liason over there is a git. Needless to say I'm not rich this year.

 

[Drains]

Some of the animals we do business with would have your eyes out if it was done on a nod and a wink.

Most of my emails these days begin with: Dear Sir, we wish to confirm our telephone conversation/conversation on site today.......

It's all good stuff - keep going, i'm listening!

Do you know Paul, I think you're a step ahead of everyone who's posted on this thread.. we're learning more than you are. You're just sitting back and going, "yeah, I do that... yeah, I do that.... "

Next week, i'm going to ask YOU for advice!!! (and for a job, probably )

 

[Drains]

What are you doing at the moment and what do you want to do in your own business? Not sure you've mentioned that in this thread and the guys have been through the generic stuff well.

Though did anyone mention being ripped off by dodgy clients. I wrote off nearly £10k in the summer due from a respectable automobile manufacturer (proper contract and everything, but fudgy terms). Still pushing it but not hopeful - liason over there is a git. Needless to say I'm not rich this year.

Ow! 10k is a fair bundle. You wouldn't expect an auto manufacturer to be run by pikeys! (know your client etc etc) Gits!

 

[snowcat]

That's another thing... Know Your Customer!

Although Snowy, these days as the world and his dog has email, and as your construction boys will be doing paperwork with everyone except you by now, all you do is fire off an email detailing the work (turning up pins, welding a bucket) and they fire it back with a "yes, thanks mate", and everything is groovy.

Unless of course you make up the prices after, and they accept them, and everybody works on trust, in which case we get back to know your customer again

prices,err they dont ever ask, and the guy in charge of contracts, well his daughter booked his holiday because he didnt know where to put the card in the computer, im not jokeing...


but I guess if i didnt know them better i might get order no.s etc, but then i do only work for hillbillys!!!

I think paul will be far more organised than I am...

 

[mishka]

(is there a style for anecdote?)

Soon after I started my grad.apprenticeship some sheet metal arrived in the training school. None of the tutors knew where it came from. After hunting through orders dating back 18 months they eventually found the order. The supplier, obviously used to the company's payment practices, only delivered after payment. No money, no metal. It used to be a weekly game of being told which supplier we could buy parts from, i.e. whose account had been settled by accounts that Monday. Note, we're not talking peanuts here, the big boys play silly games with money as well.

Later on, as a grad. engineer, I tried to avoid buying stuff from smaller specialist companies simply because I knew how they'd be treated by accounts and I didn't think it fair. Or if I had to, then I pushed for cheque-with-order.

 

[snowcat]

What are you doing at the moment and what do you want to do in your own business? Not sure you've mentioned that in this thread and the guys have been through the generic stuff well.

Though did anyone mention being ripped off by dodgy clients. I wrote off nearly £10k in the summer due from a respectable automobile manufacturer (proper contract and everything, but fudgy terms). Still pushing it but not hopeful - liason over there is a git. Needless to say I'm not rich this year.

They do say that some of the big guys are the real gits, I had a mate in fabrication, 10+ workers, was sent under by British Rail as they were at the time, they knocked them for a whooping 120K.

 

[Drains]

In one of my lives I did demolition and reclamation . The boy I worked for sold old flooring oak, pitch pine etc. I was site foreman and wagon driver. I'd be sent to sites around the UK (mostly All Bar Ones), with strict instructions - no cheque, bring the stuff back. Now we're talking big breweries here, who do accounts, not cheques. They would have to find directors to sign the cheques - a major hassle - but nevertheless, my boss said "you don't go into a shop and tell 'em you'll pay later, do ya?" 2 hours was the longest I had to wait. Taxi, across London, arrives with cheque.


Re Snowcats last post - if that was when the Railways were being privatised, blame John Major. BR put LOADS of companies to bed then, as they knew they were going to be shafted themselves. That whole period explains why no locos or rolling stock are made in the UK now.

 

[Welderpaul]

What are you doing at the moment and what do you want to do in your own business? Not sure you've mentioned that in this thread and the guys have been through the generic stuff well.

Am a fabricator now - a partnership if you like.

New business - fabricator again (Structural steel, secondary metalwork, gates, railings, ballustrades, handrails, balconies, staircases, one-offs and batch work, sheet metal working, precision machining, site snagging, welding services - the list goes on)
Fresh start, impotus to build the business, not strangle it - new fresh challenge, own boss

 

[snowcat]

Simondrains, early 90s, beleave it or not he's now contracts manager at said construction firm, and ha hem boxes of mesureing gear, tooling, and a Q S bandsaw...apeared in my truck the day before them pesky recievers. what d chance's.

 

[rtbcomp]

I was a bit annoyed when one of my customers went bust owing me £500. The MD lives opposite me I would have thought a flypress or something would have come my way!

 

[rusty69bus]

sheet metal working, precision machining,

perhaps you'll need a 'plant list' to hand for when customers come see you, when i've been looking for some used machinery i kept seeing 'plant listing' i'm thinking used machinery for sale, thier meaning i got this tool.

could be useful someone pops in for a job, see's your plant list and says 'didn't know you
had one of those, perhaps you can do this for me'.


just hide it if the unclean ones pop in!

 

[snowcat]

just hide it if the unclean ones pop in!

"The gatherers"