old Landy engine.

[lexi]

I know there are a fewLandy guys here. Any pointers appreciated.
This is 2.25 p engine. 7;1 CR. It is about 67 and is in my 61 Landy.

Engine ran rough. felt low compression when turning with handle. It started and drove, no oil or smoke problems. Would not idly freely and underpowered

Compression figures were 112 122 122 130..........all cold with throttle closed........so not accurate.

Here is head off and the gasket. one bolt was not torqued anywhere near the figure. Gasket was not comlete around bolthole there.
The combustion chambers.

Look at the deposit next to the exhaust valve.

Need to get bore measured. There is a lip you can catch with nail but I aint got an internal micrometer. Will have to borrow one.

Engine has been rebuilt before. With the price of unleaded head it is no wonder guys go for TDI power. Wont do many miles so would rather refurb this if feasible.

 

[the snooper]

did you introduce 2 or 3 drops of oil into each bore and retest to give an indication if bores / rings were worn or if you have leaky valves

 

[biodoctor]

by the time youv'e had it re-bored,bought new pistons/rings,head skimmed etc,ok you will have a virtually new motor,but it will cost a small fortune and you'll find out why people fit 200tdi's in, there's still plenty of 2 1/4 petrol engines about,is it the 3 or 5 bearing crank ? ,if it's 3 bearing I wouldn't bother with it,look round for a decent 5 bearing, or find a scrap disco with a 200tdi in it.

 

[pedrobedro]

7:1 is low compression It looks to have been blowing between cylinders from the carbon on there.

 

[lexi]

Yes Snoop. wet readings were. 120 131 130 131.

It's a 67 so 3 bearing. I wont go to bother of rebore etc. I am hoping it will not need rebore. Measurement will tell us.

Dont' fancy 200 tdi in the truck for a few reasons.

Need to check timing and chain etc. Could be out or slipped a tooth?

Was hoping to get a cheap unleaded head and get it back together with new valves etc. Needs clutch anyway so it was engine out scenario.

Guys in Scotland want £300 to fit hardened valve seats

Will weigh it up as it developes........when God made time he made plenty of it!

 

[lexi]

7:1 is low compression It looks to have been blowing between cylinders from the carbon on there.

Yes Ped. It did look like a few telltales on gasket.

My 7;1 should have about 145 psi on a half decent old engine.

 

[awemawson]

200TDI engine in my opinion beats both the 300TDI and the TD5. I have a 1990 110 Defender with the 200 TDI retro fitted and it pulls like a train. My 2001 TD5 Disco by comparison can't pull the skin off a rice pudding. When I had a 300TDI disco it went ok but fuel consumption is higher than the 200 for some odd reason.

AWEM

 

[the snooper]

i would renove the pistons just to check that any of the rings arnt stuck in with carbon from you readings in your op they havnt jumped up a great deal with oil down the bore so could be valves leaking.
a bit of a bad situation your in dont want a tdi but dont want to spend a massive anount on that engine its one of those things where your stuck in the middle and no matter what you do it will require a decent amount of cash

 

[awemawson]

Rusty Disco's with rear floors all holy go for peanuts even with good mechanics. Sold a 300TDI disco with excellent engine & gearbox but little undercarriage left earlier this year for £450

AWEM

 

[lexi]

Yes Snoop I might as well . My thinking is if the bores and pistons are useable then the head might give me a decent engine. It will not be going to work or cruising motorway..........I have a nice car for that!

The issues and yays and nays on 200 tdi into series need a thread of their own really.

 

[the snooper]

it looks as if they might be usable from your readings probably a combination of things causing the differences in compression. i think i would stick a glaze buster in the bores and renew the rings as a matter of course cant do any harm.

 

[lexi]

Thanks for all replies guys. Where's Roger "The Landy Man" ? Thought he may have had summat to say

 

[brookie456]

Guys in Scotland want £300 to fit hardened valve seats

£70-odd quid a seat, Scotland here I come. Only need the exhaust seats doing - even a completely re-worked head on a 2 1/4 should be nowhere near that price, Jeez and I thought WE were expensive... Have you tried the boys over in Dundee (Agra? I believe).

 

[lexi]

Everything is expensive up here If engine checks out useable I will get one from Lancashire or Yorkshire. Everything is cheaper there

Woman are just as expensive though!!

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

Do the seat inserts yourself , freeze the unserts and preheat the head for two or three days with 3 x 60 watt light bulbs all under a small metal box the even heat in the head will male it so easy to fit the seats , Fit seats using a new vale and a bit of broom stick as a punch Then gently lap in the new valves and seats as normal.

or
A cheaper version is to use Broquet by David Locke it is a catalyst for using with crappy petrol and is also good for unleaded petrol ..it used to be £65 ish for a 2 litre engine .. google it and find out more .. I've run alsorts of things using it with no damage to the engine and getting a de-coke from its use as well.

 

[lexi]

That's interesting PCW. First off I thought a new seat needed a cutter and machining in. Secondly : when seat goes in is it a stainless valve and seat therefore you can lap them in together with paste? I thought that would take the coating or sinter off?

I don't know so any further info welcome

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

Seats and valves .. valve seats are a different metal , valves are /used to be chromium steel alloy ( good mini punches and chisels can be made using old valve stems if ground up cooly )

A new valve theoretically will sit correctly on a new seat for they are ground to the same angles . The only valve seat grinding I ever did was to clean up a seat where the valve had burnt . On old cast iron heads on things like 1956 old Ford populars that did not have inserts you could clean up a burnt seat but whilst I have heard of it I never saw it done. I've just have a vision of a seat cutter in a wolf engine overhaul tool box C/W grey metal bodied Wolf drill
all contained in a bright red steel case/box.


A golden rule when stripping an engine is make up a peg board wth front and rear of engine marked on it so you can put each valve , spring and collet set etc . when removed in a locatable /nominated place and find it in the correct sequenced place for the rebuild.

Take care extracting the old seat so as not to damage the hole it fits in.

Make sure the hole for the new seat is not burred and is totally clenan.

I used to use a 1/4 diamond cross cut chisel to chop the seat at 90 degrees and then ease the lifted edge up with a slightly bent ground square bar , sometimes directly in through the manifold port, sometimes with carefull levering on a piece of wood set in the chamber area .
Once you get a seat moving it comes out easily so task care to get it right .

Lapping in is usualy only a matter of a lapping stick and some fine paste. '
If you don't know how to lap in , rub lapping stick when stuck to new valve head face as though you were trying to roll a stick in a hole to make a fire .. put a smear of paste around the valve contact face , a wee bit of oil down the valve guide then insert the valve sten inn the guide and with light pressure into the face give two rolls complete cycles of through hand, one forth one back, slightly lift the stick and valve rotate app 45 degrees and reinsert and repeat the lapping .. use 3 in 1 oil as a lube.

Do not continually rotate the lapping stick in the same area do that 45 rotation movement , for you will get a bad unequal uneven seating ( valves tend to rotate when the engine is running so the even lapping all round is esential ).

Clean the valve on some lint free cloth and look for a fine greyish white line appearing all the way round the valve contact area , it does not have to cover the whole area but it helps heat dissipation if it is 3/4 of the face width.
Check the same sort of greyness and area of it on the seat insert.

NB.

Wash the whole head off with clean paraffin several times to remove all grinding paste before reassembling the head , for carborundum paste residues will quickly kill a rebuilt engine ...... guess who found that out as a 3 yr apprenticed VM rushing to do his own car before he really knew what he was doing .. ???

 

[lexi]

Thanks PCT. I have lapped the seats in many years ago on old Kent Crossflows etc. It's this "unleaded head" thing I aint sure about. The unleaded inserts can be got for about £11 each. A stainless steel valve is then bought for each insert.

 

[pidgeon chit welder]

Thanks PCT. I have lapped the seats in many years ago on old Kent Crossflows etc. It's this "unleaded head" thing I aint sure about. The unleaded inserts can be got for about £11 each. A stainless steel valve is then bought for each insert.

Doubt the valves are actually stainless steel much more of what I said and finely polished to deflect /deter gunge from adhering on exhaust and inlet valves.

Think the brain wave I've just had should say valve seat inserts for unleaded used to be a stellite alloy .( ???? )

 

[biodoctor]

you might find a few bits you need here ?

http://www.paddockspares.com/sitepage/SalvageEngine.html