Odd diesel issue-2005 Kia Sorento

[Morris]

I have a Kia Sorento 2.5 diesel as my hack/tip run/haul crap/ go away and not care daily. It has a strange issue on long runs (and only long runs of 150ish + miles).
When pushing on a bit (for a given definition of pushing on) or I accelerate a bit hard at said pushing on speeds the engine stops. It continues to turn over but is "off". I have to dip the clutch and get to the hard shoulder (it's always motorways or the A1) and stop. Switch it off and then restart, which it does no bother. It's ok for the rest of the journey.
We have just been to a music festival in Kent and just pottered down and back, no issues so it seems that at lower speeds it's fine. Three weeks ago we went to Devon and coming out of services I put my foot down and it died in third with my foot hard down.
The in tank swirl pot has been checked (it's a common clog up area on these), the fuel filter is new and there are no fault codes logged (checked by a very good mechanic friend who is stumped by it).
It's only done this four or five times over two years and in normal use starts spot on and never misses a beat.

Sorry it's a bit long.

 

[DanZac]

I can't help with an answer but we had a Kia Ceed diesel on the works fleet a few years back that used to do exactly the same thing.

It went back to KIA numerous times with no resolution. In the end the fleet hire people swapped it for a new one, so we never did find out what was wrong with it.

 

[RWD3M]

Google is your friend!

https://www.kiaownersclub.co.uk/threads/engine-cutting-out.31694/

 

[Trevorleach]

Google is your friend!

https://www.kiaownersclub.co.uk/threads/engine-cutting-out.31694/

I love all the typical internet answers on that thread, conclusion = no one has any idea

 

[RWD3M]

True, but hopefully it'll give some ideas of what to check.

 

[Morris]

I love all the typical internet answers on that thread, conclusion = no one has any idea

It does tend to be like that on there. There are some knowledgeable guys on there but they can get swamped out.
I have posted the same question on the Mk1 Sorento page on Facebook, there's some clever guy's on there.

 

[Melvyn Best]

Had one a few years ago with exactly the same symptoms, checked all of the obvious, changed filter etc. In the end it turned out to be the fuel rail pressure valve . From memory Kia only supplied it with a new fuel rail but Colchester Diesels managed to supply one. Have had the same problem on Ford Ranger, Honda Accord and a couple of other diesels

 

[Red'n'Black]

Mrs RnB's one does that, but hers is a 2013 with the 2.2 CRD. Seems completely random, hot or cold, plodding around the lanes or ragging it down the motorway.

No EML, no fault codes. Starts again immediately. It's been into the local indy a few times but never happens when they're looking.

Fuel pickup in the tank blocked with diesel bug has been suggested, I'll have a look myself when I get a minute. Seems unlikely to me as she gets through two tankfuls a week. We'll see.

 

[hunter27]

I am no mechanic but my 2005 Mondeo 2.0 diesel started doing that very occasionally 3 or 4 times. It only happened on the motorway usually when accelerating to pass another vehicle, I could bang in the clutch turn the key and it would restart immediately. No codes or EML but glow plug light came on when it happened. I replaced the crank position sensor and the fault has never returned, 2 years ago now?

 

[qwakers]

watch live data. id put money on the fuel pressure disappearing, or at least, appearing to to the ecu.

Sorento's are early comms in the obd2 world, they don't always throw a code for intermittent sensor issues.

 

[Morris]

I dropped by my friends place and he stuck his scanner on it. The only code was P1541 neutral switch open. Pretty sure that will have no effect in day to day use.

 

[qwakers]

like i said, early obd2 doesn't always throw a code for intermittent faults.

record live data (fuel pressure commanded, fuel pressure actual, rpm, coolant temp, oil temp and crankshaft position.) and go drive it. force it into the circumstances it shows the fault then review the data.

 

[Morris]

like i said, early obd2 doesn't always throw a code for intermittent faults.

record live data (fuel pressure commanded, fuel pressure actual, rpm, coolant temp, oil temp and crankshaft position.) and go drive it. force it into the circumstances it shows the fault then review the data.

Unfortunately I don't have any means of doing this. Also as it happens so infrequently I suspect it would involve considerable patience!
Thanks for the input though, it's all good stuff.

 

[Rrobson]

Didnt these suffer with the paint coming off the inside of the fuel tank and blocking things up? Could be a contributor to fuel pressure issues if that’s what your problem is.
I was 50/50 on buying one of these years ago but decided to buy Japanese.

 

[Morris]

Didnt these suffer with the paint coming off the inside of the fuel tank and blocking things up? Could be a contributor to fuel pressure issues if that’s what your problem is.
I was 50/50 on buying one of these years ago but decided to buy Japanese.

They did. It clogs up the sock filter in the tank. The usual symptoms are refusing to rev very high or stopping and not restarting.
My filter has been checked and was clear.

 

[Migmac]

Had one a few years ago with exactly the same symptoms, checked all of the obvious, changed filter etc. In the end it turned out to be the fuel rail pressure valve . From memory Kia only supplied it with a new fuel rail but Colchester Diesels managed to supply one. Have had the same problem on Ford Ranger, Honda Accord and a couple of other diesels

One of the guys I work with, had this with his work Ford Ranger. Took an age for the fault to be diagnosed but when it was diagnosed it was an easy fix. Can’t recall what the fix was though

 

[qwakers]

Yes these do have the coating on the inside of the tank flaking off and blocking the pickup. However this tends to cause it to cut out dead at any load level and, most importantly, not restart until you clear the blockage (at side of road remove the fuel pipe from the tank to the fuel filter and blow down it) then rebleed the fuel system. So it doesn't match the description of fault as the car restarts immediately. It also doesn't match crank sensor fault as a failing crank sensor generally won't allow a restart until the engine has cooled down.

However if you do need a tank... i have one off the face-lift series one. Its the modified one to fix that issue so no flaking issues.

 

[Melvyn Best]

One of the guys I work with, had this with his work Ford Ranger. Took an age for the fault to be diagnosed but when it was diagnosed it was an easy fix. Can’t recall what the fix was though

We were unable to get the valve separately anywhere and had to fit a Ford fuel rail complete at a vast cost for what it was. It cured the fault which pleased the customer

 

[Morris]

Many thanks for all the replies and ideas.
It will be a "creep up on it" job so it may be a while before I get to the bottom of it but I will update here. It has a few other items that need attention, not least of which is the general lack of sills. But this is a welding forum so I just may have the solution to that