Noob looking for fairly good mig

[h3rman]

I am a total noob when it comes to welding, however it is something that I have always thought would be a great skill to have, so wanting to get a welder in the near future. After a bit of reading around it seems that the Mig is best to go for being a noob as it is the easiest to work with.

I would be working on cars, things like sill repairs, stitch welding panels, etc. So I need something that won't blow through thin steel, however I would also like a welder that could do thicker steels, such as welding roll cages and diffs.

If anyone is wondering what kind of diff welding would be done, here's a picture I found online of what would be required....

Being a total noob I will need absolutely everything. So welder, mask, wire, gas and anything else.

What would people recommend as a good mig that can do the variety of work I require and able to run of a standard 13A mains?

Oh and I have read to avoid the ones with disposable bottles and get one that uses a large gas bottle because the small ones are useless for prolonged welding.

 

[W.olly]

Hi kida, if its only upto 4mm max you will be welding, i say this as roll cages are not thick and incase if its off roading your doing and the such i have found that 4 mm is all that is needed when making other add ons, unless its a winch setup.
I have used a Clark 151TE for the same jobs as above for the years without any hitchs, still runs good infact, you get them with the disposable canisters but you can get an adaptor pipe for around £15 for larger cylinder use, as i have done.
There are other welders about but i can vouch for these a si have used one.
But you will need a min of 150amp i reckon for what you want, but its the duty cycle you need to look at for the length of welding you can do, i have done a full winch bumper in 4mm steel without any problems with my 151TE.

Wayne

 

[cumbriasteve]

An idea of your budget will help, it allows those with knowledge to suggest what they think is a decent MIG in the price range you have to spend.

A mask can range from £24 off Ebay and they are ok, to something like this http://www.weldequip.com/siflite-helmet.htm
which is a better quality.

Gloves are cheap enough.

Gas..depends how lucky you are locally, my calor gas agent supplies the full range, my large bottle is £30 a year rent and £30 to refill, as a hobby welder its lasted me 15 months before I had to refill

 

[h3rman]

Not totally sure on a budget, however I am not in any major rush to buy one so can save for a bit longer if needs be to get something decent, but don't want to spend silly money on something that I will only use every now & then.

Been looking around and for a Clarke 160TM, ESAB welding mask, 0.6mm wire & gloves I'm looking at around £450 delivered. As for gas I have checked and we have a local authorised BOC gas retailer nearby. They do Argosheild gas in the large refillable bottles as well as little 2L refillible bottles. Not checked the prices of each though, but can't be any worse than most other BOC gas retailers.

Is there anything else I might need that I'm missing? Is 0.6mm wire ok or should I go for 0.8mm wire?

 

[barny]

0.8 would be better for thicker stuff and can still work with thin with the right technique.
Try and get a welder with a euro torch as they have a better feel and less likely kink.
I only mention this as I have a little hobby welder that's getting used every day and it's starting to take its toll on the torch lead.

 

[h3rman]

Ok, cheers. I won't be using this daily, but will keep that mind about the torch. Would the Clarke 160TM be fine for welding diffs as shown above? From what I can see it is basically a 151TE, but supports full sized gas bottles out of the box.

Anything else I'll need to get going, apart from lots of practice obviously. Oh, and will it be possible to use a 150 amp Clarke on full power off a standard 13A single phase supply?

 

[cumbriasteve]

My suggestion is the 185
http://www.weldequip.com/portamig-mig-welders.htm

Has the euro torch, comes with a regulator, long warranty and has a better lower and higher amps range.

Would do the work you mention and they are well liked by owners.

You may find once you have learnt to weld you will be using it more than you originally thought so to buy the right one in the first place ends up cheaper.

 

[barny]

Ok, cheers. I won't be using this daily, but will keep that mind about the torch. Would the Clarke 160TM be fine for welding diffs as shown above? From what I can see it is basically a 151TE, but supports full sized gas bottles out of the box.

Anything else I'll need to get going, apart from lots of practice obviously. Oh, and will it be possible to use a 150 amp Clarke on full power off a standard 13A single phase supply?

A couple of pairs of gauntlets. Ear defenders, face mask, eye mask, mig pliers, lots of contact tips.
I found an grinding apron has stopped me catching on fire too.
Various clamps and grips will be useful no end too.
I run my supermig 150 off a 13a supply and it works on full power.

 

[keith19]

I'd fully agree with Steve about getting at least a 185 Portamig, or equivalent.

I don't know exactly what thickness metal you will be welding inside diffs, but such steel takes the heat away very quickly, and I have doubts that a 150/160 Clarke would suffice. They are fine for up to 4 - 5 mm, sometimes with preparation, but I find that if I am working on gates or other metal work of more than about 6mm, it's time to get the arc welder out.

I may be wrong, but after you have bought the machine is not the time to find out...

 

[h3rman]

Hmm, might keep saving for a bit longer then, as I wouldn't want to get one that is not up to the job. It's not large diffs I'll be welding, just car ones from things like BMW's, 200SX's, MX5's, etc. So need something that can handle that.

Oh and of course it will be used for welding nuts onto bolts where the head has sheared off. However I think just about any welder could handle that.

How thick could I weld up to with 185A? Also, the weldequip site says I can only use the portamig 185 up to 150A on a standard 13A mains, anything above that requires 16A which would mean rewiring the garage. So on that basis is there any point in going for it as I won't be able to use it over 150A anyway. Also, I will double check, but pretty sure a guy I know who has welded a few diffs in the past has done it on a Clarke 151TE.

Appreciate all the advice. Just thinking is it worth spending the extra if I won't be able to weld any thicker than a 150A Clarke can without rewiring the garage.

 

[keith19]

Best thing to do is to try to find someone local who is into welding diffs, and go along and have a chat about what he's using, and his opinions about it. Experience is better than guessing.

When buying a welder, you can go for a low power model like the Clarke 90 series, which are excellent for bodywork at their price, and get an arc welder for the occasional heavy job that comes along, or you can go for a bigger mig which handles anything you are likely to throw at it.

But with the 13A domestic circuit limit a bigger mig may blow your plug fuse at something like 150 - 170A. Or may not; there are folks on here who run pro machines up to 200A off a 13A socket, but they may not use the top end of the range very much.
Some bigger machines seem to handle the 13A supply much better than others. Inverter migs best of all. I have a mate with a Kempi inverter, supposedly only 160A, yet I have seen him weld 10mm steel from a 13A domestic socket, no problem.

So far as rewiring goes, you might be able to rig up a 2.5mm flexible cable plug-in extension to your garage, just to use when you are welding heavy stuff. This would save extensive rewiring for the cost of the cable and sockets. Depends on your layout and what obstacles there are between your consumer unit and your garage, and how far away the garage is.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I use my Portamig on a normal plug and have welded over 200 amps for a few inches many times with no problems.

I lay loads of runs down at about 180 amps and never blown a fuse, however I have read of members who pop fuses at 130 amps, I think there are lots of variants in household electrics but I don't have the knowledge to fully understand it all.

There is also the build quality to think of, the excellent wire feed, the euro torch and the 2 year guarantee, extended to 5 years on the transformer.

 

[h3rman]

Those are good points Steve, however what voltage are you welding at with 200A on a UK household mains?

P = IV

P = 13*230

P = 2,990w

So a UK mains can supply 2.9KW fine. To weld at 200A would mean.

V=P/I

V=2990/200

V=14.95v

So you cant be welding at over 15v on a standard UK 13A mains without blowing fuses, etc. You do make a valid point about the quality of the parts, but it is nearly double the price. I have spoken to a friend of a friend to does A LOT of welding (mainly on cars and similar stuff to what I would be doing) and has done for the last 4 years who uses the Clarke 151TE. He was saying only now after 4 years is he finding it restrictive and thinking of moving up to something bigger.

I'm just thinking more along the lines of if I buy a decent hobby welder and I only use it periodically I am not too fussed about it sitting about or if I ever decide to upgrade I can sell it and move up should I need it. My only real concern is that because I will not be doing a lot of welding (and I know that I probably never will use it day in, day out), I do not want to spend £600 on a welder that gets used 2-3 times a month.

I am kind of leaning towards getting a cheaper welder for £350 or there abouts, then if at some point in the future I ever need to get something bigger for really thick welds I can do, as welding diffs would be very useful, but due to there being a safety risk involved (if it fails for example), it's not something I would be doing for quite some time yet. By that time (maybe a few years), I will be able to go and buy a Portamig for £600. I also need to think about the cost of a gas tank, mask, gloves, wire, etc on top of the welder itself.

Also, wiring a 16A or 32A supply would be a nightmare because the garage has been converted and the workshop is at the other side of the house, so not as simple as wiring flexible extension. Would also have to go from the original garage right across to the other side of the house into the new workshop. So not really ideal.

Really do appreciate the advice. Don't think I am being stubborn and not listening to what you're saying, just that I can always upgrade in the future should I need a bigger welder and don't want something worth £600 lying around only being used occasionally and mainly for things that a smaller welder could handle with no bother.

 

[cumbriasteve]

[QUOTE=h3rman;358542]Those are good points Steve, however what voltage are you welding at with 200A on a UK household mains?

P = IV

P = 13*230

P = 2,990w

So a UK mains can supply 2.9KW fine. To weld at 200A would mean.

V=P/I

V=2990/200

V=14.95v

So you cant be welding at over 15v on a standard UK 13A mains without blowing fuses, etc.

Impressive..but not a clue what it means

Ok..In simple Cumbrian speak

From the consumer box, cooker circuit breaker
2.5mm twin and earth to garage
into a standard socket
Standard plug on Portamig 235 with 13 amp fuse
Shove plug into socket...and

Result = Welds away happily

 

[keith19]

A few points to consider:

A 13A socket is capable of passing rather more than 13A. It will pass 15A for awhile before it becomes overheated, and the 13A fuse (if that's what it is) in the plug will blow before the socket overheats.

Maybe the equation is using the wrong figure. Try 240v instead of 230. You will then get V=15.6v comfortably.

Don't forget 230v lies in the middle of a range. Some favoured places within some areas may still be getting around 240v as a median. Some less favoured will be getting nearer 220v. They are both getting electricity that is within output range.

Also, there is the machine to consider. Better quality machines can to some degree compensate for variations in voltage and, as many of us have found when welding on the end of a long cable with volt drop, some do not.

If using any of the 150/160 Clarkes - if you get one - near or at the top of its range, use 2.5mm flexible cable and 16A connectors for any extension, even if it's only 10 or 15 metres, and use a dedicated line if you can. (That is, nothing else connected to that circuit except perhaps a lamp or two while you're welding). If you have a 13A plug on the end of this, the plug fuse will blow first, so it's quite safe. But you are giving the little Clarke it's best chance.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Thats easier to understand and yes it is a 13 amp fuse, which I have no doubt would blow if I was to attempt some serious lengths of full power welding, I am probably getting away with it due to the material I weld, mostly flat and round bar so it's just being abused with short bursts for a maximum of perhaps 40mm.

 

[Robotstar5]

[Ok..In simple Cumbrian speak

From the consumer box, cooker circuit breaker2.5mm twin and earth to garage
into a standard socket
Standard plug on Portamig 235 with 13 amp fuse
Shove plug into socket...and

Result = Welds away happily

Result = melted cable in Cumbria?

the cooker mcb will be around 40A which is way too high to protect a 2.5mm² T&E cable, fit a 16A mcb

 

[cumbriasteve]

Result = melted cable in Cumbria?

the cooker mcb will be around 40A which is way too high to protect a 2.5mm² T&E cable, fit a 16A mcb

No melted cable at all and been using it for 18 months

BUT..always appreciate helpful advice so will get a 16 this week and change it..Thanks

 

[Robotstar5]

No melted cable at all and been using it for 18 months

BUT..always appreciate helpful advice so will get a 16 this week and change it..Thanks

No worries, 9 times out of 10 there is no problem, but a future tenant could hardwire something much bigger to the 2.5mm² and the mcb would happily supply it 'til the cable catches fire!

 

[ryan]

Ive welded loads of 200sx,skyline and rx7 diffs with my murex tradesmig 165 machine and had no problems atall,Think the clarke 150 will do it easy enough....