New to welding, need help on selection please.

[EddieMunster]

I'm set on getting from Draper, but that's as far as i know when it comes to welders.
My budget for a welder would be around £200 although the option 3 I'd be willing to go that much, i still need to buy the safety gear, and i honestly don't want to skip on that part.
I'm not to keen on the idea of using gas as i have noi real safe space to store it, and i heard it can be expensive if I'm not going to be welding a lot, like for a job or hobby.
So, i want something i can simply plug into the home wall socket (UK) and just get going, but perhaps the option to use gas if ever i might need/want it.

I added option 1 just in case that'd all I'd really need, but knowing me, and like many of you I'm sure, when you have the tools for the job, you suddenly find the inspiration to create things that otherwise you'd never have thought of, so this is where the option 2 and 3 comes into the mix. Plus i don't want to get a welder then realize, "i should have got the more powerful version".

So, I have a chainsaw, and i use it a fair bit, like 3 times a week, and so one of the things i was looking to make was a steel chest rig that'd be sewn into my "safety overalls" just so i feel totally safe, and then make some upper and lower leg plates to complete the suit.
I also have an old pair of work boots (well, kinda like wellies) that i was thinking of making a steel outer layer, (think of those old steel divers boots). I know steel toe caps are best for chainsaw users since the chain simply skips off them, unlike the so-called 'chainsaw boots' with the plastic toe in the boot which actually doesn't stop a chainsaw from doing serious damage before the blade is stopped by the fibers.

So if i ever wanted to do such jobs with thick steel, or thick enough steel, which one of these welders would be good enough?

GASLESS
1/ http://www.drapertools.com/product/32728/Gasless-Turbo-MIG-Welder
Phase Single
Input current 13A
Output amperage range 60 - 90A
Amperage at 35% duty cycle 60A
No load voltage 26-30V
Wire size-flux cored 0.8mm

GAS/GASLESS
2/ http://www.drapertools.com/product/12033/140A-230V-Gas-Gasless-Turbo-MIG-Welder
Input current 16A
Output amperage range 40 - 140A
Amperage at 35% duty 75A
No load voltage 23-38V
Filler wire sizes 0.6 - 1.2mm

GAS/GASLESS
3/ http://www.drapertools.com/product/12019/180A-230V-Gas-Gasless-MIG-Welder
Input current 16A
Output amperage range 40 - 180A
Amperage at 35% duty 100A
No load voltage 23-38V
Filler wire sizes 0.6 - 1.2mm

PS, would i also need a respirator for any fumes from the metals? If so, which one would be best for use with a full welders mask? I honestly don't want to wind up with some horrible respitory disease or something like that when I'm older.

 

[cumbriasteve]

Welcome to the forum.
Draper are not a make I would be considering, I am a bit rushed to write a full reply but searching the forum for similar questions will help you.

 

[norlander]

If its any help, I have 160 amp set and run 1.2mm f/c on it for 3mm -4mm steel, and 0.9 f/c for down to 0.8 sheet.

I would not consider Draper welders myself if I was looking to buy, one of those sets has 60A min, thats too high, and the others 40A, 30A is aound the norm for most sets.

Yes, you would need lung protection, there are welders disposable fume masks available, see weldequips site (top of page), unless you are outside in a breeze. Some masks trap fumes worse than others.
F/C is smoky and more sparks than gas shielded, and there is more spatter, but a wire cup brush on a 115mm grinder sorts that out, and a flap disc/sanding disc for any stubborn stuff.
Anti spatter spray, and Tip Dip are both handy to have.
GYS fluxcore shroud set up also very handy for f/c
You may have a steeper or more frustrating learning curve as a novice with f/c, but years back it was about the only option folks had.

 

[Kent]

You can't re-invent chainsaw safety, your likely to make things worse not better. If your not confident get training or dont do it

I have to say like others draper wouldn't get close to a recommendation from me. For your budget maybe a secondhand Clark? there are bargains come up on here just make sure they are fully functional before parting with dosh, people upgrade or move on

 

[WorkshopChris]

Welcome,
These welders are very low on specifications, the low setting are a little high.

i was looking to make was a steel chest rig that'd be sewn into my "safety overalls" just so i feel totally safe, and then make some upper and lower leg plates to complete the suit.

Chainsaws are not my thing, but i would want to add material like in the trousers to stop the blade. If the chain makes its way towards your chest things are already way out of hand, last thing you want is a nice smooth steel plate to direct it up towards your face or down to the wedding tackle.

 

[Richard.]

Gotta go with the majority on this for all parts.
DONT MAKE PPE
DONT MODIFY EXISTING PPE
while my chainsaw knowledge is not great I can only speak from designed ppe in general. Pdg and kent are bang on the money. Ppe is not there as your primary life saver and never should be. 1st should be competency (are you well trained) second be area, (clear safe to work in) 3rd should be Guarding (machine guards and e stops or kill switches etc all as they should be) last is your ppe. (Although you depend on it to keep you safe all other measures should be taking the risk out first)
As for the welder I can't comment on draper as they are a tool manufacturer and IMO not a very good one at that so I can't imagine there line of welders to be that great either but ive never tried one so I'll not be too quick to judge.

 

[arther dailey]

there are proper chain saw courses you can go on, sounds like it would be a better investment to me, I use chain saws, proper training and protection are a must. Arther

 

[norlander]

I did not comment on your idea for the chest rig as I thought -as expected it would bump the thread.
In a previous job we had vests with rigid kevlar chest plates. These were for static jobs, as they restricted movement, and are not good if you fall, the edge of the plate can catch you under the chin. We had flexible kevlar vests for jobs where we needed to move around and maybe fall over.
You don't want the chain skipping off, it needs jamming and fast. If your use includes the felling of trees, you need to have mobility, it sometimes does not go to plan as happened to me the other week.
In addition to PPE, other aspects of chainsaw use often overlooked are keeping the chain sharp,and double checking the chain brakes work each time you fire up and before you start cutting.
My apologies if thats teaching you to suck eggs, but threads are often seen and read by many people.
Anyway, stay safe.

 

[norlander]

Sorry I forgot, to get back on the thread, there are two welding plant suppliers who do an instalment payment plan which would enable you to get a better spec welder. Obvously, different folks have differing views on pay as you go and it may not be for you.
One sells their own branded kit, the other sells a choice of kit.
You are fortunate being in UK as gas is easier to sort than over here, but if going gas I would check the other sections as I have no experience of the gas provision for DIY in the UK.
Happy hunting.

 

[Kent]

No more danger than a compressor right? Except it displaces breathing air at low levels ( like under a car or inside a tank)

 

[Richard.]

Storing an inert gas is easier than you think. Even co2 which is an active gas is not flammable
The dangers around these shielding gases are extreme pressures and with argon (very unlikely unless in a confined space) asphyxiation.
Vertical is always best imo and chained to something substantial to prevent a fall. Regularly check for leaks and keep your regs, hoses and fittings clean and in top order. Don't move your bottle with a reg sticking out of it incase you drop it it's less likely to shear off and shoot off.

 

[Kent]

Yeah don't get in its way if you crack the reg off!

To be honest some of the new small bottles are well protected against dropping ad regards the valve area

Your supposed to wait a good while after a bottle has been on its side for the gasses to settle - don't use them this way

 

[EddieMunster]

Ok, first of all, thank you all for your input and criticism, i honestly do appreciate it.
Now, having read the replies in regards to the welders, it's clear that i simply haven't got a clue what I'm looking at and even thinking about when it comes to welders (and even the brand) and that there is a bit (ok, a lot) more to this than just watching some welding videos online and making a choice based on them. So please, let me have your suggestions.

Let's say my highest spend would be the cost of option 3 there, which on Amazon can be had for £219 w/Free P&P. Of course if i can get one for a bit cheaper, then I'd lean toward getting that and using the money i didn't spend on safety gear.

In regards to making the plating for my chainsaw suit, i was never going to mess with the protective layer it self, but merely just sew them under it following the line of stitching already there. So, I'd be wrapping the plating in tough fabric, then sewing that fabric to the inside of the suit. But this is just one application of the welder that i have in mind so far. It isn't going to be the only thing i will use it for. I do plan on making myself a steel framed workbench as well because i like woodwork and would like to incorporate metalwork into my skillsets.

In regards to the boots -

I lost all faith after watching that simple demonstration. I'd now like to add steel plating a a result!

 

[norlander]

Well done in coming back and disappointing our negatrolls.
On the boots. In my experience, its not the toes that get whacked, its further back. I don't let an opposing chainsaw bloke come at me fom anywhere in a 180° radius. Its common to put your foot on a log/trunk to trim it.
Look at the angles of attack in that video. How are you going to do that with your own saw? . In teamcutting, you would have hopefully jammed the opposing saw with your own even if the banksman had fell asleep and the trumpet had not gone off. The danger angles are the not obvious ones, everyone is carefull on cutting the trunks, but cutting off the brush on the deck when too tired is when you stuff the chain into your calf/ankle.
The killer is lopping when knackered and chain is getting blunt and it kicks back and cops you in the jugular.
Anyway, enough of all that,

I would advise against putting steel in your PPE. Ask the English archers and the French Knights at Agincourt on that one.

On your use for the welder, as you are in the UK I would search for a decent set with gas, Whatever process you start with, you will make a mess but progress. Woodwork and metalwork can be great mix, gasless sparkies mixed with woodshavings would not be good.
have a look at this bloke

https://www.youtube.com/user/MrMldillman.
He appears normal in this video. But he is nuts,but Knows a thing or two.

 

[norlander]

Safe storage for a cylinder? With a semi-inert gas just so long as you don't use the valve as an anvil or store it in the middle of your fireplace, it'll be fine

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/ne...ter_a_worker_lost_an_eye_after_gas_explosion/

Yeah, what can possibly go wrong?

 

[EddieMunster]

Ok so thinking more about uses for the welder i might need, I'm not likely at all to be doing any thin metals, just steel tube frames, like outdoor railings like on a disabled ramp for example. Then there's the metal frame for the work bench i'd like to build, steel shelves for the shed so i can build my own to make them fit perfectly in the shed. So would a stick welder be the right tool for such jobs?

Boiling this all down, and considering the above job types, the last thing i want to factor into any choice in welder is that I'd prefer it to be plug and play with UK house socket so i don't wind up blowing the universe up.

I'm happy to take the time to learn how to use the tool and make decent enough welds before applying myself to any work, so even if stick welding (stick welding is called arc?) is difficult for first timers to get to grips with, I'm happy to dedicate time into learning. I want to incorporate welding into my skillsets so I'm happy to learn.

 

[EddieMunster]

Lower cost, does the jobs listed, sounds great already!
Any suggestions please?

 

[Appyasme1]

Stick/mig or tig will all do those jobs.

You can get a decent stick welder for less outlay than the others though, and you can then use that for 'limited' tig if you want (plus torch and gas of course).

Stick/arc/mma (all the same thing in context) has a reputation for being a little more difficult than mig and easier than tig, but it's really not complex for 'normal' stuff like you listed.

I think we are missing the point here,to run a machine off a 13A socket,which he states he wants ,is going to be difficult.

 

[cumbriasteve]

I think we are missing the point here,to run a machine off a 13A socket,which he states he wants ,is going to be difficult.

Why? I use MIG and MMA off a 13amp socket, in fact I suspect a lot of us do.

 

[Appyasme1]

Why? I use MIG and MMA off a 13amp socket, in fact I suspect a lot of us do.

Of course you can,it really depends on the ammount of amps you want to pull from your ring main circuit.As you know,the more amps you need to push up the current drawn from your ring main the more chance you have of blowing the fuse.In this case you must be only welding at a fairly low amperage