New to forum and need advice please

[Gerry450]

Hello all

I am in the process of restoring a car at the moment, and facing the task of welding new outriggers on the chassis (picture attached, somewhere). So am going to need a welder. It will be my first and I have no experience.

The chassis consists of 1.6mm mild steel tube and 3mm plate in the corners. I will be sleeving the cuts/joins with smaller OD tube so will need a MIG that can handle up to 4mm roughly.

I have been looking at this forum to see if there is a thread that already exists to get my answers from, but alas, no.
So what MIG will be sufficient? I have been looking on fleaBay at Sealey items, (supermig 150 & 180). The 150 seems like it might be up to t he job just fine, but there are only 4 settings for power. Will that be an issue?
The 180 has more and obviously more ooomph. But will I need it?

Or am I looking at the wrong manufacturer? I know very little about MIG makes and models, sorry.

I do have a budget for the whole car restoration and the budget for the MIG is incorporated into that. So I don't have a set figure in mind. Ideally I want to spend as least as I can, as beyond the chassis work I don't know what it'll be used for. Just odd jobs I guess. Hobby stuff and car repair. But by the same measure I want to buy once and buy right.

Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Regards
Gerry

 

[Monkey Harris]

What car is it..?
Im sure I've seen that chassis on wheeler dealers...

 

[cumbriasteve]

Welcome to the forum:

First of all Ebay purchases can be a bit dubious for any after sales problems, most know nothing about the machines they are selling and don't want to know you after they have your money, there of course will be a few decent sellers... good luck finding them.

A 150amp machine will manage the work you mention and a GYS, Cebora, Snap On (rebadged Cebora) or Clarke would be my choice within that range, there are other makes if you decide to go higher but by the sounds of it you have limited future demands for the machine.

A dual purpose gas/gasless is always a handy choice, allowing you the option of both types of welding, although gas would be the choice of most for the work you have.

The supermig gets mixed reviews and I have never used one so can't offer a fair judgement.

 

[Gerry450]

What car is it..?
Im sure I've seen that chassis on wheeler dealers...

TVR Chimaera

 

[Gerry450]

Welcome to the forum:

First of all Ebay purchases can be a bit dubious for any after sales problems, most know nothing about the machines they are selling and don't want to know you after they have your money, there of course will be a few decent sellers... good luck finding them.

I was thinking about this chap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331416270055?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

He has a unit on an industrial estate not too far from me and landline. So I can go and buy it direct from the shop. Should eliminate the eBay 'faceless transaction' problem. Hopefully...

 

[Monkey Harris]

TVR Chimaera

That's right it was ..it was well corroded...did they buy a new one..?

 

[Monkey Harris]

I was thinking about this chap http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/331416270055?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

He has a unit on an industrial estate not too far from me and landline. So I can go and buy it direct from the shop. Should eliminate the eBay 'faceless transaction' problem. Hopefully...

A good idea if you need spares or repairing..
I think they get good reviews...
You may get a discount for collection...

 

[rtbcomp]

...........
You may get a discount for collection...

And for cash - so he'll save transaction charges, do get a proper invoice/receipt though!

 

[Gerry450]

That's right it was ..it was well corroded...did they buy a new one..?

It was a Cerbera on wheeler dealers. yes they bought one. NOT cheap..

 

[Gerry450]

A good idea if you need spares or repairing..
I think they get good reviews...
You may get a discount for collection...

Just spoke to him. No discount for collection as it would be shipped out from Nottingham warehouse. There is a 1 year Sealey warranty with the MIG.
But they do have a SuperMIG 150 in the store. To be honest, the 150 will be ok up to 4mm. Just thinking about future proofing and going for the 180.... Haven't decided yet.

 

[Gerry450]

And for cash - so he'll save transaction charges, do get a proper invoice/receipt though!

No discount for cash. They are priced the cheapest on eBay already he said. Which I can't argue with, as they are..

 

[MoreWellie]

we initially bought a clarke 151te which has given a few years of sterling service until we decided we needed to join thicker bits of metal together. Should really have gone for one like the Clarke 160TM (still only 150amp) that comes ready for a bigger gas bottle as we found the rental free large bottles (try https://www.barnet-welding.co.uk/) were quite a bit more economic than the small hobby gas bottles

The picture looks like a domestic garage so you presumably only have 13amp sockets available which limits you to around 150amp depending on the particular welder. Even the clarke is recommended to be put on a 16amp spur rather than the domestic ring main although we didn't have any issues as we didn't run at full bore very often (full bore being around 4mm with preparation)

if you think there is any possibility of wanting to weld thicker metal in the future then I would suggest going straight to a larger welder, we ended up with an Oxford 240 but it is a fair sized lump compared to the clarke and the heavier euro torch is a bit bigger than the Clarke torch one which you notice when working in confined spaces. However the longer euro torch and earth cable saves a lot of moving the welder around

 

[Gerry450]

we initially bought a clarke 151te which has given a few years of sterling service until we decided we needed to join thicker bits of metal together. Should really have gone for one like the Clarke 160TM (still only 150amp) that comes ready for a bigger gas bottle as we found the rental free large bottles (try https://www.barnet-welding.co.uk/) were quite a bit more economic than the small hobby gas bottles

The picture looks like a domestic garage so you presumably only have 13amp sockets available which limits you to around 150amp depending on the particular welder. Even the clarke is recommended to be put on a 16amp spur rather than the domestic ring main although we didn't have any issues as we didn't run at full bore very often (full bore being around 4mm with preparation)

if you think there is any possibility of wanting to weld thicker metal in the future then I would suggest going straight to a larger welder, we ended up with an Oxford 240 but it is a fair sized lump compared to the clarke and the heavier euro torch is a bit bigger than the Clarke torch one which you notice when working in confined spaces. However the longer euro torch and earth cable saves a lot of moving the welder around

Thanks for the reply Wellie.

Although a 150amp will suffice for this job, I've been told that the smaller amp welders are less user friendly for a beginner. The bigger you go, the easier it will be, apparently. THis combined with the fact the 180 Sealey comes with a euro torch as standard, and an industrial regulator, means I'm starting to lean towards the larger item. It's £140 more, but I'll save not having to buy a better reg and euro torch which is a few quid. And it will be a longer term investment.

I've been posting a few welding related threads on a motoring website and armchair experts are telling me I shouldn't even attempt it (in a patronising tone), which rubs me up the wrong way a little. If we all had the same sentiment as these 'advisors', we'd never progress and learn new skills. I'm doing my research and understand that fusion is important and a good looking weld isn't necessarily a strong one. Also different techniques for different situations and metal thicknesses. It's not rocket science, but it is an art. One in which I'm looking forward to discover.

 

[MoreWellie]

I've been told that the smaller amp welders are less user friendly for a beginner

not sure I would agree with that. The Clarke was quite good to get to grips with and the size of the torch made it easier to get into tight locations but the length of the hose and the earth wire are restrictive

I had a few friends come round to start me off and they were very complimentary about the torch on the clarke

I'm doing my research and understand that fusion is important and a good looking weld isn't necessarily a strong one

I would agree and that is why we moved up in power as the Clarke was capable of producing nice looking welds on the thicker (6mm and up) material but when we took a hammer to the joints the weld pretty much always broke first. With the Oxford we found the metal gave way before the weld. Once we got the settings right of course.

For thin stuff low amps are important and the Clarke goes down to 30 amps (Oxford 15 or 20) and repairing thin rusty metal can be frustrating as it disappears faster than you can weld to it. A minimum much more than 30 amps requires your technique to be better on thin metal

 

[Gerry450]

Cheers Wellie. I'll take all of that into account.

Quick question: What is a Cebora Stag 196 like? Are there still plenty of spare parts available for it, to recondition if need be?

Thanks
Gerry

 

[Jim Davey]

Stags weren't bad old sets, much better nailed together than a Sealy. I've got a client with 4 of them and they all still work every day 20 years plus after he bought them. Admittedly he has me service them every year which helps but they never need much more than a clean and a tighten up of a connection here and there.