New Front Stairs

[Spragnut]

Hi all,

I'm after a sanity check if possible!

A small chain of events, involving concreting a section of our drive, uncovering a gas pipe whilst digging and subsequently discovering a "significant" gas leak in our house at the meter (thank you SGN for your due diligence!), has resulted in us needing some new stairs for access to our porch. Due to the location of the new gas meter these need to be of steel construction, well I guess timber would work, but that wouldn't involve me cutting and welding something, I've also done woodwork for years and want to do something new, and I quite like the idea of steel stairs!

I've already generated a cad model of the design, which will mainly be made up of 200 x 10mm plate for the stretchers and landing perimiter, then 3 pieces of 60 x 40 x 3mm box section welded between two plates, the box section will be spaced 40mm apart, for each step. The 40mm space between each cross piece will be filled with a hardwood strip, either Iroko or Teak, which I've had for years and years! The landing area will be constructed the same way, albeit deeper. There's 7 steps in total, I think. I've already read through building reg's so have accounted for rise, tread depth & overlap, angle, and the 100mm sphere rule. The main pieces, landing, stretchers and steps will be bolted together.

My main questions involve the final finish, I think the general construction is sound, once I've finalised the cad I'll post up some images, if you think I've missed something, I'm happy to take the criticism.

I'm planning on spray painting the final finish, I had initially leant towards powder coat, but I'm not keen on not being able to repair defects or wear and tear later down the line. I will probably make one or two more step than I need, then if I need to remove a step because of damage I can bolt in a replacement whilst I work on it.

I will likely do all the prep at home, I was going to use it as an excuse to buy a sand blasting cabinet, but the resonably priced ones are a little small. Therefore it will be sanding all over and die grinding where needed. Painted finish will consist of Manor 2 Pack Zinc Phosphate Primer and Manor Hi Build Vinyl.

Before I commit to making this, can anyone see anything obvious that I've missed?

Apologies in advance for the long post! Cheers, Jim.

 

[Barking Mat]

Welcome to the forum.

I'd paint roller it, nice thick coat of paint for protection.

 

[Spragnut]

I've made some progress on this in the last few weeks, I finalised the design and have managed to get all the steps and landing welded up, along with all the 10mm plate cut and drilled.

First assembly at the weekend was a success, everything went together as expected, thank you 3D modelling! They are plenty strong enough! My concerns about the construction were daft and I probably could've reduced some material thickness, but they are definitely solid underfoot, which is what I was aiming for.

The rear legs are temporary, the final assembly will just have the front legs, the rear part of the landing is supported by the concrete face of the porch.

Next thing to work on is the hand rails, then lots of grinding/sanding and then onto paint.

I ended up going with a Jotun primer and paint in the end. I've painted the "spare step", overall I'm happy with the finish, the full curing time was a lot slower than I expected, around 3 weeks in total. I've since installed the diesel heater onto my workshop and will run that constantly when I'm painting to speed up cure time.

Any thoughts regarding painting would still be appreciated, I'm probably going to roller it, but handling the pieces is going to be challenging, I suspect the landing is in the region of 100kg!

 

[selectedgrub]

Nice work.
Sorry not many people looking here.
Try placing a bacon sandwich on them

 

[Mark 5]

I've made some progress on this in the last few weeks, I finalised the design and have managed to get all the steps and landing welded up, along with all the 10mm plate cut and drilled.

First assembly at the weekend was a success, everything went together as expected, thank you 3D modelling! They are plenty strong enough! My concerns about the construction were daft and I probably could've reduced some material thickness, but they are definitely solid underfoot, which is what I was aiming for.

The rear legs are temporary, the final assembly will just have the front legs, the rear part of the landing is supported by the concrete face of the porch.

View attachment 474014

Next thing to work on is the hand rails, then lots of grinding/sanding and then onto paint.

I ended up going with a Jotun primer and paint in the end. I've painted the "spare step", overall I'm happy with the finish, the full curing time was a lot slower than I expected, around 3 weeks in total. I've since installed the diesel heater onto my workshop and will run that constantly when I'm painting to speed up cure time.

Any thoughts regarding painting would still be appreciated, I'm probably going to roller it, but handling the pieces is going to be challenging, I suspect the landing is in the region of 100kg!

Very nice job, it will be interesting to see what you come up with for handrails and as you have worked with wood--instead of metal.

I would roller.

As for rear legs, ( removed ), my only observation would be to insure no movement in the porch concrete support wall, not so much about weight but to and fro movement, there shouldn't be, just make sure it's sturdy.

 

[Spragnut]

Very nice job, it will be interesting to see what you come up with for handrails and as you have worked with wood--instead of metal.

I would roller.

As for rear legs, ( removed ), my only observation would be to insure no movement in the porch concrete support wall, not so much about weight but to and fro movement, there shouldn't be, just make sure it's sturdy.

Thank you! Apart from this forum, only two other people have seen them so far so the feedback is appreciated!

The concrete retaining wall was poured when we were doing the other work, it's tied into the wall on the house side and probably 200mm deep in most places, a picture paint's a thousand words... It was also poured before the ramp under the meter cabinet so is somewhat retained by that. We found that the underside of the porch was quite hollow when we removed the steps, it's not original to the house, but more than 50-60 years old I would think, and years of rain had washed a lot of the back fill away. We dug back to solid back fill and then poured concrete in.

The back section of the landing is steped so it should end up sitting on that ledge below the door, I've also added provision for two 100 x 100mm angle brackets to bolt the landing to the face of that wall if need be. I need to mock them up in the final location before paint so I can finish the legs to length, they will also have mounting plates on the bottom so they can be bolted down to the ramp. Our house is on a hill so the ramp follows the same angle as the drive, the legs will eventually be cut to the same angle with the plate welded to the bottom. I was also going to add some bolt downs where the stretchers meet the ground.

This is what I came up with for the hand rail, all metal again, the beginning of the hand rail will have a scroll as well. My wife wanted something with oak leaves, I found these panels on DCIRON, but I'll cut the leaves off and weld on oak leaves. I'll mock it up and see what it looks like though. You can also see the steped section on the landing better in this image.

 

[Mark 2]

Do the treads not need some sort of upward return on them,?

 

[Spragnut]

Do the treads not need some sort of upward return on them,?

From what I've read on building regs, I don't think so. From what I understood, open risers are acceptable in a domestic setting as long as a 100mm sphere doesn't go through the gap. I have designed the steps with this in mind but it isn't shown in my mock up, on each step there is a small tab that protudes underneath which has a 10mm hole in it, this will hold a 10mm bar that goes the width of each step. This will be sufficient to reduce the gap.

But if I'm missing something do say so, something that has plagued me throughout all of this is going to the effort of making them, only to be told by building control that they aren't suitable!

 

[Mark 5]

Thank you! Apart from this forum, only two other people have seen them so far so the feedback is appreciated!

The concrete retaining wall was poured when we were doing the other work, it's tied into the wall on the house side and probably 200mm deep in most places, a picture paint's a thousand words... It was also poured before the ramp under the meter cabinet so is somewhat retained by that. We found that the underside of the porch was quite hollow when we removed the steps, it's not original to the house, but more than 50-60 years old I would think, and years of rain had washed a lot of the back fill away. We dug back to solid back fill and then poured concrete in.

View attachment 474017

The back section of the landing is steped so it should end up sitting on that ledge below the door, I've also added provision for two 100 x 100mm angle brackets to bolt the landing to the face of that wall if need be. I need to mock them up in the final location before paint so I can finish the legs to length, they will also have mounting plates on the bottom so they can be bolted down to the ramp. Our house is on a hill so the ramp follows the same angle as the drive, the legs will eventually be cut to the same angle with the plate welded to the bottom. I was also going to add some bolt downs where the stretchers meet the ground.

View attachment 474019

This is what I came up with for the hand rail, all metal again, the beginning of the hand rail will have a scroll as well. My wife wanted something with oak leaves, I found these panels on DCIRON, but I'll cut the leaves off and weld on oak leaves. I'll mock it up and see what it looks like though. You can also see the steped section on the landing better in this image.

I think you have covered all the angles and I think stretchers would be a good idea.

Other then that my views are subjective and more to do with aesthetics.

Hand rails/scroll work look good, I prefer a mixture of wood and metal.

 

[addjunkie]

Nice work, Id suggest an upturn last thing you want is a kid or other sticking a foot through and breaking a leg.

Id also suggest once complete, take it to bits and send it off to be galvanised. When its back paint accordingly.

 

[steve t]

Great job

 

[Mark 2]

From what I've read on building regs, I don't think so. From what I understood, open risers are acceptable in a domestic setting as long as a 100mm sphere doesn't go through the gap. I have designed the steps with this in mind but it isn't shown in my mock up, on each step there is a small tab that protudes underneath which has a 10mm hole in it, this will hold a 10mm bar that goes the width of each step. This will be sufficient to reduce the gap.

But if I'm missing something do say so, something that has plagued me throughout all of this is going to the effort of making them, only to be told by building control that they aren't suitable!

That was my understanding but if you've read the regs. I think, as someone else has said, it's about slipping rather than the baby's head scenario.

 

[Munkul]

Open risers are just fine for domestic, if that's what you want and like then it's fine. It's your property anyway so as long as they meet document K (or appear to on first glance) in a few years time no one will give them a 2nd thought

Only thought I would have is that the tread design will still be very slippy when wet. Some textured paint or grip tape will go a long way here.

Overall, I like the design, it's nice and robust and looks great.

 

[bricol]

I'd second the galvanising suggestion - certainly anything anywhere near the ground.

We have several steps of similar step arrangements at work - originally painted, and they all rotted. Took a while of course, but now replaced with galvanised ones.

Do it once, and not have to worry about tarting it up/fixing it when you come to sell in 20 yrs time/retire etc.

 

[Spragnut]

Would anyone happen to know, roughly, what I should be expecting to pay to have it galvanised? I'd prefer to go this route, and initially thought about this along with powder coating, but I think I'd prefer a painted finish so repair is easier.

Also whilst buying the paint I ordered the anti slip material Jotun sell, I've painted a step and added this and it's almost like 80 grit sand paper so plenty grippy.

 

[Munkul]

Around 80p/kilo of steel, plus transport

 

[ajlelectronics]

Would anyone happen to know, roughly, what I should be expecting to pay to have it galvanised? I'd prefer to go this route, and initially thought about this along with powder coating, but I think I'd prefer a painted finish so repair is easier.

Also whilst buying the paint I ordered the anti slip material Jotun sell, I've painted a step and added this and it's almost like 80 grit sand paper so plenty grippy.

You can epoxy prime over galvanised steel. Belt and braces, plus your choice of finish.

 

[Spragnut]

It's been a while but I've finally finished the steps! Multiple things slowed progress, work, procrastination and the shear amount of clean up required before paint!! The last bit, I really thought it would be easier!

I ended up with an epoxy primer and polyurethane based top coat in the end, the final finish generally is good, but in other places it isn't quite what I wanted, but I'm really happy with them. You always want these sorts of projects to remain perfect, but that's never going to be the case. A little imperfection here and there is no different to the bird poo that ended up on one step about two hours after putting them up! Then the subsequent two days of rain covering them in a dusty residue, great!

I'll keep an eye on how the paint is holding up and worst case, I'll get them stripped and galvanised and paint them again, or powder coated in the future. That's tomorrows problem though!

I did make a small mistake during CAD and had to put the scrolls on the handrail at an angle, but I think this ended up working quite well as it follows the angle of the step.

 

[Mark 5]

It's been a while but I've finally finished the steps! Multiple things slowed progress, work, procrastination and the shear amount of clean up required before paint!! The last bit, I really thought it would be easier!

I ended up with an epoxy primer and polyurethane based top coat in the end, the final finish generally is good, but in other places it isn't quite what I wanted, but I'm really happy with them. You always want these sorts of projects to remain perfect, but that's never going to be the case. A little imperfection here and there is no different to the bird poo that ended up on one step about two hours after putting them up! Then the subsequent two days of rain covering them in a dusty residue, great!

I'll keep an eye on how the paint is holding up and worst case, I'll get them stripped and galvanised and paint them again, or powder coated in the future. That's tomorrows problem though!

I did make a small mistake during CAD and had to put the scrolls on the handrail at an angle, but I think this ended up working quite well as it follows the angle of the step.

Nice job, very nice.

If I have one observation it's the open slats of the steps, I'm thinking of high heels, stilettos, not that I wear 'em.

 

[Spragnut]

I don't either fortunately! The openings will be filled in with hard wood fairly soon, I need to find some time to clean my workshop of all the grinding dust before tackling any wood work though, the stuff gets everywhere!