Never put a load into the middle of an unsupported strut

[Morrisman]

...Trike building is a dark art, the MSVA introduction has driven the majority of builders towards bolt on options, but it fortunatley has removed much of the old bedframe, scaffy tube, incorrectly registered desth traps.

it never ceases to amaze me how much people try to sell those ugly old junk piles for. There used to be several on Ebay at any one time, or in the ad pages of bike magazines, some horrendous abominations with stock bike front forks, tiller 'bars, and some huge long body, totally out of proportion, all on a 'fully legal' Reliant Regal registration.

I've always wanted to build a tadpole trike, two front wheels, V8, long thin enclosed body, tandem seating, ally body work, hot rod style radiator cover at the front, small tail fin... reminiscent of a small plane... but alas there is, apparently, no classification for such a thing in the MSVA book. There were several similar production trikes built on 2CV chassis long ago.

 

[angellonewolf]

No it doesnt as its a bolt on kit, even if it did go through the MSVA test, they dont check design detail, its more like just a supper mot. They may ask for steel receipts etc too, but no formal sstructural design assesment, calculations or even weld tests or competencies for that matter.

If it was built is 2008 its not done too bad, being such a poor design. Trike building is a dark art, the MSVA introduction has driven the majority of builders towards bolt on options, but it fortunatley has removed much of the old bedframe, scaffy tube, incorrectly registered desth traps.

so if you change a bike wwith bolt on stuff you dont have to have a test ?

was there not a law a couple years ago preventing people from adding after market stuff to motor bikes ?

 

[minimutly]

That would simply be a reverse trike...

 

[Morrisman]

so if you change a bike wwith bolt on stuff you dont have to have a test ?

You can buy a bolt on rear end trike kit, that doesn't need MSVA, but you have to inform DVLA that its now a 3 wheeler, apparently.

was there not a law a couple years ago preventing people from adding after market stuff to motor bikes ?

The eu tried to enforce laws saying we had to use nothing but genuine manufacturers parts when doing any repairs or maintenance, but then they also wanted to force us to always use registered garages for all work, effectively stopping anybody working on their car or bike at home.

 

[angellonewolf]

You can buy a bolt on rear end trike kit, that doesn't need MSVA, but you have to inform DVLA that its now a 3 wheeler, apparently.

The eu tried to enforce laws saying we had to use nothing but genuine manufacturers parts when doing any repairs or maintenance, but then they also wanted to force us to always use registered garages for all work, effectively stopping anybody working on their car or bike at home.

so they tryed to pass it but never went through ?

 

[Morrisman]

so they tryed to pass it but never went through ?

Yes, thank the lord. It was meant to cut down use of cheap imported spares etc, but probably fuelled by motor manufacturers greed, wanting to maximise their own profits. The usual way of politics.

 

[addjunkie]

With a bolt on trike conversion, you do it, and then it is inspected by the dvla, or was, not sure now all the local offices have closed. At the i spection they check numbers etc, and score your trike. So origional frame/ chasis scores 5 points, origional forks/ steering, scores 1 point, original engine 1 point, origional gear hox 1 point....

You need 8 to keep your origional reg number and therefore no MSVA test. Les than 8 you would get a q plate, but would need msva. Last time I was there, there was a guy with a cracking home built trike, bolt on, almost in tears, as he was told it needed msva, he'd changed the engine as the origional was burning oil and ran like a bag of hammers.

He tried arguing, but inspector told him "no"follow the rules, or take it home and refit origional engine, get it inspected, and keep reg number.

The msva is nothing to really worry about, just like a super mot.

And your conversion looks like one done by a former kit car co, am I correct?

 

[minimutly]

I disagree, it's nothing like a super mot. They check for radiussed edges, e numbers, sidelight position, head light height, mirror positions and loads of other things, also the modern lighting requirements come into play. For a car it's even worse - seat belts, mountings, engine emmissions, all to current standards.

 

[addjunkie]

I disagree, it's nothing like a super mot. They check for radiussed edges, e numbers, sidelight position, head light height, mirror positions and loads of other things, also the modern lighting requirements come into play. For a car it's even worse - seat belts, mountings, engine emmissions, all to current standards.

All things to make sure you meet C&U regs, if its well built, shouldnt be an issue. First one I had to go home and fix a few things, second time, 3 cable ties, some extra wire wool in the baffels and it passed. Emissions when I went were based on age of donor engine.

For a kit car Ive heard it can ge a bit much, but trikes are not so bad. I took a bike with a friend, I drove the trailer, it was obviously built to pass.ester knew pipes etc would be changed straight away.

 

[minimutly]

It's a farce - you have to fit '"edge protection" to the (plastic) mudguards, they know it will come off, mirrors will be moved etc. You're right, bikes and trikes have it easy, but it's still a farce. Take the guy who's engine change failed it as an example...

 

[minimutly]

Well the redesigned arm is on for testing. Mostly fine, but I'm not happy with the position of the a/r bar lug, need to remove it and machine 6mm or so off it.
I replaced the inch tube with 34mm od erw tube, added a 6mm plate across the bottom of all 3 arms - it's edge welded on the forward element, I cut a 12mm slot into it and welded to the middle element underneath, as well as a fillet run at the rear. The tapered section is edge welded to the remaining inch element. I made a pair of lugs, welded to the plate, would have liked to move it towards the middle, but because the middle element is diagonal it would interfere with the mounting bolt...

 

[badabec]

For the ARB lower mount, how about drilling through both wishbone arms, weld tube into each arm, projecting enough to locate the rose joint, then bolt through the middle?
Are the rose joints a bit over the top as the bar is rubber mounted?
Or use cold drawn seamless steel for the ARB, mounted in needle rollers with adjustable blade arms?
I'm getting carried away now

 

[dobbslc]

You can buy a bolt on rear end trike kit, that doesn't need MSVA, but you have to inform DVLA that its now a 3 wheeler, apparently.

The eu tried to enforce laws saying we had to use nothing but genuine manufacturers parts when doing any repairs or maintenance, but then they also wanted to force us to always use registered garages for all work, effectively stopping anybody working on their car or bike at home.

Martin Bangermann was the name of the EU drone that wanted to ban any modifications. It got thrown out after a lot of work from bike association's like the BMF MAG etc.
Edit : probably the start of my hatred of the EU and what it stands for these days.

 

[minimutly]

For the ARB lower mount, how about drilling through both wishbone arms, weld tube into each arm, projecting enough to locate the rose joint, then bolt through the middle?
Are the rose joints a bit over the top as the bar is rubber mounted?
Or use cold drawn seamless steel for the ARB, mounted in needle rollers with adjustable blade arms?
I'm getting carried away now

Yes you are making a simple job way too difficult. And the rosejoints are a cheap and easy way to connect the arb - over the top of what?

 

[minimutly]

Martin Bangermann was the name of the EU drone that wanted to ban any modifications. It got thrown out after a lot of work from bike association's like the BMF MAG etc.
Edit : probably the start of my hatred of the EU and what it stands for these days.

Hooray for common sense, but don't be surprised some do gooder will try it again here.

 

[Morrisman]

Hooray for common sense, but don't be surprised some do gooder will try it again here.

There are people queuing up to change things, just to justify their position and salary. We had them when I was working offshore, always some knob in the offices trying to make a name for themselves, changing out procedures, rules, protocols etc.

They hide it behind the notion of continual improvement, and demand things have to continually change to remain safe and efficient...

 

[dobbslc]

Things don't need to change if it's working well and safely. There's whole industries built up just making constant changes to rules and regs to keep untaleted pen pushers in work.

 

[minimutly]

There are people queuing up to change things, just to justify their position and salary. We had them when I was working offshore, always some knob in the offices trying to make a name for themselves, changing out procedures, rules, protocols etc.

They hide it behind the notion of continual improvement, and demand things have to continually change to remain safe and efficient...

You are 100% correct with this - a measure of managers performance is what's called "projects or change delivered"
That's why politicians are allways sounding like postmen. Be better if most of them were...

 

[dobbslc]

It's why every manager we have had over the years (and that's a lot) has to change everything we do just to justify his position. Usually ends up with things getting more complicated and ineffective as we go along!