My adventures into welding (Few questions ;))

[TerenceSharp]

Hi, My name is Terence and i am 15

I am planning on building a go-kart and learning to weld is an inevitibility . I was going to take a course but it is £60! (I could put the cash towards the welder!)

I have a few questions

What would be better for the beginner (With little cash for consumables!) Mig or Arc?

What minimum amperage would you recommend for 1-2MM Steel pipe? (So i
dont end up paying for more than i need )

Would I Be OK learning by trial and error?

I only have a small garden to work in so a welding screen is a MUST (People walk by every hour, farther teaches banjo out back). But What about welding masks, what shade glass would you recommend for the amperage that you recommend?

If i go for MIG, Would I be ok with fluxed Wire or is it not very beginner friendly?, My dad doesnt like the idea of gas bottles (Co2 OR argon Or whatever)

Also, Health risks, I am very scared about health (If i have a headache, i get anxious i have a brain tumor >.>); What are the REAL risks if I am carefull?


Sorry for the many questions, I dont want to be buying stuff before I know what to get.. Plan before purchase... Took Me 2 weeks to choose out the engine for the cart :lol:


Thanks in advance!

P.S, I hope this is the right forum!, Please dont kill me ;0

Welders I am looking at:
Clarke Easi-Weld Arc Welder 40-100 AMP: £50 (Machinemart page 83)
Clarke Weld MIG Welder 27-85 AMP: £112 (Machinemart page 81)

 

[weldequip]

Hi Terence & welcome to the forum!
If you are on a very strict budget it has to be an MMA (Arc) set, which can be obtained for £50 ish. However, MIG is far easier to learn than Arc & has the advantage of being able to weld thin stuff, whereas Arc will not.
Gas-less MIG is fine on approximately 1mm plus but not really thin sheet (such as car bodywork). The wire for gas-less MIG is more expensive compared to a gas MIG, but you are not having to buy (store) gas so probably works out much the same.
Safety wise, common sense really:- always protect your eyes with a shield/mask (which are supplied with new machines) & protect any exposed skin with gloves etc. The welding arc should also be 'hidden' from other people in the area, so any form of screen/shield would be a good idea.
Hope this answers all your questions?
weldequip
Oh, and shouldn't you be in bed? it's 12.30am!

 

[TerenceSharp]

Thanks for your answers, MUCH apreciated!

I Think i'll go for arc Due to the Low price. These welders come with handheld shields, but i heard these were crap so i will go for a Full face Flip down shield

The welder I am looking at now is:

Clarke Easi arc 115N
30-110 Amps
1.6-2.5 Electrode Dia.
48 Open volts
2.5 KW input power

I am hoping this will be upto snuff for 2MM Steel! I can stretch an extra few ££ for a 150 AMP model, Though budget is tight (Need cash for kart materials !)

Also, i'd like to note at this point that I dont plan on welding thin steel (like less that a mil)

Any other things you'd like to tell me before I go Welding/Hurting myself?


I sleep at 4AM and wake at 11AM .. always has been that way!, techinally i am in bed (Laptop ;D)

 

[weldequip]

I sleep at 4AM and wake at 11AM .. always has been that way!, techinally i am in bed (Laptop ;D)

Oh those were the days, can't fault yer mate!!

The 110 model will do 2.5mm rods but go for the 150 if you can. Chances are when you have had a play & get used to using it you will look at more & more ambitious projects. The other option of course would be to get yourself a good second hand MIG set. You need to be careful though; have a scout around on eBay & drop me a line if you think you have found something suitable, I really don't mind offering my advice/opinion.
weldequip

 

[TerenceSharp]

Ah, thanks for the help man!...

 

[weldequip]

Yar welcome!
I realise it's a bit of a mine field & you don't know where to start, but you have your starting point... your budget. So, have a look on eBay at MIGs in your price range & PM me with the details; It's a case of 'suck it & see' with used stuff but I will give you my honest opinion
weldequip

 

[Davek0974]

Hi Terrance,

good to hear you are looking at getting into construction / welding, it's a skill for life once you have got it right.

Personally i would go for mig with gas, it is much easier to pick up, i had no luck with arc welding. The gas can be stored outside, it,s non flammable so no fire risk, i wouldnt keep it in the house though.

The cheapest is C02, i got talking to a local pub landlord and he "lends" me a bottle once or twice a year.

If not then go for gasless mig, not quite as pretty but still good stuff.

As for safety, never under estimate the power of an arc. Cover all exposed skin - arms, neck etc preferably with a welders jacket as they are flameproof, if not you will be looking at grade 1 sunburn very fast.

Use good gloves and don't scrimp on the cost of a good visor or head shield, good auto dimming ones are available at reasonable cost and make the experiance so much more enjoyable than a fixed shade.

Don't try to cut costs on your equipment too much, poor or cheapo units can turn out more expensive very quickly due to wasted materials etc. Go for a good second hand unit. It's far better that the project takes a little longer to finish and you still have good equipment than to struggle with poor tools and give up or not get the finish you wanted.

As for passers by, any shield will do, fence panel, pallet top, scrap wood sheet etc. Affix a large sign stating "Welding In Progress, Do Not Watch" to it to warn people not to look round the sides and you should be good to go.

Get some scraps to muck about with first and dont get disheartened if it doesn't work first time, this forum is a mine of information and there is excellent advice to be had. Dont forget - safety first & always, anything else can be fixed later!

Ebay - check it out.

Good Luck
Dave

 

[TerenceSharp]

- Thanks for the reply, After talking with my dad, he agrees to allow me to use gas, Aslong as i store it properly!. Looking at other peoples responses, it seems MIG is the way to go for the beginner. My dad is asking around the family if anyone has a welder (My dad's side has construction guys!)

If not, i'll take the plunge and get one of these £150 ones from machinemart or something (Just means waiting a bit to get steel), On another note, is there anywhere online to buy steel as reasonable prices (And not with limits like buying a pallet full! )

Another tool i heard i'll need it an angle grinder, Would an el-cheapo £20 one from argos do?, not like i am doing heavy work, My dad has like £2000+ worth of woodworking tools (But not much metal surprisingly!); Pilar drill, bench saw, mitre saw... i guess i'd just need metal blades for the saws (These aren't cheap low-wattage machines ;D)


Once again, thanks for your advice. I'll will have a scout around Ebay in a mo!

One extra IMPORTANT question!:

I wear glasses, do most welding masks accomodate this?... Probably wont interfere, but its worth asking

 

[shenion]

If you get a cheap mIG, get one that can be upgraded to gas.

The woodworking tools are high-speed. Metal saws operate slowly to keep speed down.

If you find a metal blade to fit, make sure it is rated for the speed of the saw.

Glasses are no problem with welding masks.

 

[Alex]

ARC is quite good, I had a bad view on MMA but when you get used to it, its far more enjoyable to do MMA than GMAW, chipping of the slag is quite good aswell.

GMAW is what I use for things that show, but to repair a BBQ or something outside MMA is a good option.

 

[Davek0974]

Hi again Terrence,

go with the cheap grinder, plenty good enough. I use flexible carbide discs for cleaning up welds when needed, cheaper than wheels and a bit easier to control.

I wear glasses, masks are no problem, dont forget to wear goggles when grinding, i wrecked a good pair of specs with grinding sparks.

A great place to get metal bits for small projects or practising is the skips around architectural or similar metalwork shops. Always ask first as it has a value as scrap and they might get a bit peeved if you help yourself

I have got some great stuff this way, it costs nothing to ask.

Dave

 

[TerenceSharp]

Thanks for the help!

You make some interesting points
I will be buying a Clarke Grinder from machine mart (Only £15 with a disc, seems decent), I'll also get me some safety equipment (I am scared of opticians! I prolong my glasses as long as i can hehe!)

I am then gathering cash for a Clarke MIG welder OR a nice beefy Welder off ebay. My dad already has welding jobs lined up for me hah!... The front gate's lock came loose. and my brothers basketball hoop snapped. I can see this skill becoming HIGHLY usefull, and the equiment invaluable

Then i go scouting for scrap (We have a few builders in our area who oddly have skips out their houses like 60% the time !)

My dad's brother may have an arc welder (He used to be an engineer), It couldnt hurt to try... And if i fail at arc, ill try MIG... MIG seems more streamlined nooby-wise!

Once again, thanks guys. Best thing i ever did was join this forum!

 

[mishka]

Arc then MIG

I started out with arc years ago, kept with it. It is definitely harder to learn than MIG, but you do learn a lot more about what's going on in the weld pool. Then MIG ('point and click' ) welding is very easy to pick up as you already have an appreciation of what the weld pool should be doing.

 

[TerenceSharp]

All i can say to all the help is...

(Thats hugging the welders, Not drilling into a hug!) hehe

 

[Alex]

That looks like drilling into the hug!

 

[Haze]

I started out with arc years ago, kept with it. It is definitely harder to learn than MIG, but you do learn a lot more about what's going on in the weld pool. Then MIG ('point and click' ) welding is very easy to pick up as you already have an appreciation of what the weld pool should be doing.

agreed, when I got my mig, my brother who has never touched a mig in his life ( about 10 years of arc ) picked up the gun and layed the sweetest weld I'd seen just like that...

i was gutted

 

[TerenceSharp]

Since this thread is my first Metalwork project, I thought i'd show you my plans ... You may know better ways of doing the frame (Design-Wise) hehe

Frame:

(I was thinking having the front and rear box sections On the outside, if you get my meaning :s)

Full 3D Shot:

(No the front wheels won't be fixed straight )

Reason for wood panel is metal sheet is heavy and expensive, and i dont want my poor lawnmower engine to be under strain

The engine will be mounted either behind the chair (If i get a horizontal drive engine), or between your legs (For pulley system to convert lawnmower vertical shaft)

Hope you like

 

[Haze]

looks uncomfortable, also there is no need for a solid floor panel, just build a frame work with box section and fix the seat into that.

 

[Davek0974]

Try and keep the engine behind the seat, breathing in exhaust and hot air ain't much fun.

Keep the box section light, only strengthen where needed. The front wheels can be a little closer together than the rears. Brake the rear axle only.

Yes, dump the floor panel, generally, your legs sit "in" the frame in boxed in sections or a moulded seat pan. Its all about getting your centre of gravity i.e. your bum, as close to the tarmac as possible.

You might want to make the outside chassis section between the front/back wheels (the side rails) as wide as the rear wheels and tapering in a bit from the midway to the front. This will give you some protection to the back wheels in a bump, and could stop the wheel jamming on an obstacle and wrenching the cart to a standstill rapidly Also helps stop bent axles in the same situation.

Keeping the back axle solid is ok, reduces speed & increases tyre wear slightly on corners but unless your'e going in for formula 1, it wont hurt.

Has your engine setup got a clutch? If not, you will need to bump-start and stall-stop or ypu could use a fan belt type drive and release the tension to start/stop.

Its all good fun.

Dave

 

[TerenceSharp]

Yes, i do have a clutch, I am considering getting one of these honda-replica Engines and a bolt-on clutch if all else fails :d

I was also thinking of ditching the wood, or atleast cutting slots so your feet are lower... Not like i'll be racing this thing, It's mainly a project to learn welding and Have "I have a go kart" bragging rights

I am trying to get my hands on a Horizontal shaft engine as this wood (See what i did there ) Allow for greater durability than a 90-degree pulley system

To save money, the chair is going to be one of those school/college style moulded things (Gonna add padding to it!)

The dimensions of the cart are:

Tires are 10" Diameter Pnuematic
Its the Drive-section wich seems.. hard heh

Render:

Also, reason for boxy shape is because It's my first weld-a-thon... Keepin' It simple, than maybe if i build another, I'll make a crazily complex one with a motorbike engine and stuff

Thanks for all the advice! - As you can tell, i am doing extensive planning, For me its like, measure 400 times... cut once... Weld once... Sit on it and hope it works!