Mill Collets, little confused.

[busastars]

Before anyone asks, YES im easly confused and it bugs the hell out of me untill somthing is explained

Collets, there are various types like ER25, ER32, ER40 etc. What is the difference, what does the number mean, how can you tell what ER....etc you need apart from the right size for the tool to be used.

Keep it simple please, black and white answer

 

[scott0031]

Its pretty easy really, isn't everything when you know!

Take a look at this link i found for a quick explanation.


http://www.colletsdirect.co.uk/html/about_er_collets.html

Its is basically the physical size of the collect and the diam it can take for that assigned designated number. The smaller the collet ER number the smaller maximum shank size it can take.

Edit: I cant seem to find a size designation to indentify the collect type on the net, so here is it copied from one of my toolholder books.



ER Major Diam
11 11.5mm
16 17mm
20 21mm
25 26mm
32 33mm
40 41mm
50 52mm



Kind regards,


Scott ( ward eng)

 

[busastars]

Thanks Scott,

That explained it, all makes sence now, I googled it but couldent find a good explanation like that.

 

[scott0031]

Edited my last post Busa, so you can define which ER collect is which ER designation.


Kind regards,


Scott

 

[busastars]

Thats ok Scott, it does make sence now.

Just costing up tooling for when I get my Mill.

Think for me an ER40 would be best start up set then as and when some turn up I could get a smaller set like an ER16. I already have a set of Bull Nose cutters upto 25mm.

Trying to cost a Rotary table & Vice but trying to work out best size for me, somthing I could use both for a Mill and my S&B 9" Lathe.

 

[scott0031]

Busa, you might get a bit more confused You will find depending what machine you have and the machines spindle nose what Er size it can take restricted by the spindle nose type iso 30, 40 etc.

I will pm you my number and i will happily give you a full run down and what's what...... to much to type and I'm lazy.


Kind regards,


Scott

 

[graffian]

Take a trip to Hay on Wye and find George Watkins, he has shelves of tooling and loads of tables and stuff, chucked in collet chucks, rotary table and a vice when I bought my mill from him. Nearly forgot he also walked along the shelves pulling out new cutters and filled an ice cream container with new cutters and handed them to me, excellent bloke

ER32 takes 32mm! just re-read and you mean overall diameter.

The overall diameter may be 32mm, biggest collet I have is 20mm, I seem to remember they will take a bigger collet may be 24mm, but who has 24mm cutters. The ER40 may take 32mm, I have a few collets but no ER40 chuck;-)
ER32 is a good size, I have collets from 2mm up to 20 and they are cheap, chucks from Barretts were £16, collets around a fiver. I do have several autolock chucks, haven't used one for years, I only use them with big mills, though I have several new 1" cutters and no 1" collet;-)
I was going to get an ER16 for the small mills as the size of the chuck sometimes gets in the way, have been holding back as I have a CNC mill with BT35 spindle and would like to get a collet chuck for that and the same type for the int40 so I can rationalise the collets, probably end up a DAxxx.

 

[scott0031]

Yes graf it refers to the major diam( biggest) of the collet. That was for identification of what collet type as Busa asked for. The link supplies the shank size each ER collet range can accept.

Correct ER32 takes a max of 20mm shank. I have never seen bigger on a 32 but i expect someone somewhere makes something, for what ever use it is.

I have the same problem as you having a load of 1" cutters and no machine or collet to take them.

Autlock are old hat now, likewise i have not used one in years and probably never will ever again.


Often the problem with trying to get spindle nose tooling to suit the smaller ER collet range like the 11 or 16 is they are not readily available as per your normal ER 32 collet chuck. The smaller ranges of the collets chucks are very nearly only available in extended length tooling to get into hard to reach places. Sort of defeats the object having a big tool overhang and less rigidity just to use a small collet.

If you struggle with smaller diam cutter shanks with the tool holder/collet chuck getting in the way, take a look at side lock adaptors. The corresponding cutters known as weldon shank. They are by far the most superior tool holding method out there and very simple and slimline compared to collet chucks. Collet chucks are great for versatility but they do not offer the accuracy or anywhere near the rigidity of side lock. They can often transform the performance of a machine.

Kind regards,


Scott (ward eng)

 

[graffian]

My Matsuura came with a coolant tank full of metric weldon shank
tooling. But only the common sizes, 6,8,10,12,16,20,25.
I wanted a few collet chucks for small mills and drills and imperial sizes;
I haven't ever bought new cutters, just buy what comes along. I just know I am going to get loads of imperial cutters when I only have metric tooling;-)
I nearly always buy carbide mills, very rarely get ones with the flat for the side screw, I take it you just hit them with the grinder.

If you ever see any BT-35 tooling for sale let me know.

I only have a 25mm collet for the big autolock, bit of a git as I have several new 1" end mills. I also don't have any autolock spanners, looks wrong using stilsons;-) I know the last time I used an autolock chuck, it's in a picture in my gallery;-) I used a big mill to hack the front of a swinging arm down.

A few draw bars is also a good idea, I have a long 16 mm for BT40 tooling, normal length 16mm and 5/8 whit, basically I can stick anything with a 40 taper in my spindle.

 

[scott0031]

Graf, you should give the side locks a try (sounds as if you haven't) Not only are they better, using them will free up your other tooling. I changed all my tooling over years ago to make metric the mainstay. I only use imperial now if the job requires.


When you say about putting a flat on the cutters to make them weldon......................... it really depends on how you intend to do it. If you are talking about an off hand grinder then .............. no. It would probably be ok for the odd cutter for a manual machine where you can feel what the tool is doing, but i would not be putting lashed up things on a machining centre like your Matsuura.

If you are talking about doing it with a surface grinder then yes. The thing to remember is the flats are not a flat just thrown on. They are ground in with considerable accuracy. They are formed with a flat and 2 x 45 deg chamfers extending to the diam of the cutter shank. The flat length and position is pretty accurate so you can get repeatability when replacing a cutter, for instance if your part way through a job. So you can eliminate tool setting when replacing cutters. You would need to re-set if doing something like a pocket where the depth is important. Generally i find they go in pretty well and never more than a few thou difference, for most work its adequate.


Will keep my eyes open for any BT 35 tooling, I'm sure you know not to hold your breath Ive not seen any for sale for years.


Kind regards,



Scott (ward eng)

 

[busastars]

Take a trip to Hay on Wye and find George Watkins, he has shelves of tooling and loads of tables and stuff, chucked in collet chucks, rotary table and a vice when I bought my mill from him. Nearly forgot he also walked along the shelves pulling out new cutters and filled an ice cream container with new cutters and handed them to me, excellent bloke

Hey Garffin,

Has he got a website? I havent bought a Mill just yet and if he sells Mills then that maybe an option.

Scott is a top bloke, explained all I need to know, thanks for your time Scott.

 

[hareng]

Cant see what the rave is about with ER and similar collets, quite the opposite whats good with them?

These are available for R8 (Bridgeport) MT2 and MT3. Buy the collets to suit the threaded drawbar in the machine. I can change a cutter over within 10 seconds on both millers unlike the ER and Clarkson types taking around 2 mins then slip at that.

 

[graffian]

George was Meckade machinery, well something like that, it's a farm with sheds were all full of machinery. He obviously bought all the cheapest as some of it was really horrible, but some good and he had no problem with me wanting the dro of one machine to go with another, all at bargain basement prices. He had a truck with Hiab and deliverers, but I mailed him when I was thinking of buying an Interact from Swansea and I gather his health wasn't good and he wasn't delivering at the time.

Stick 'Meckade Machinery' into google, you will find his phone number and address.

The R8 collets look great, if you have R8.

 

[Flathead_Dave]

This will give you some prices to compare to

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local...SS=er+collet&PR=-1&TB=A&search.x=7&search.y=9

This is table of dimensions.

http://www.rego-fix.ch:80/eng/katalog/ti/ti_fs.htm

Hope this doesn't muddy the water.

 

[busastars]

Well I went for the er32 set, also got a little carried away and bought a slim 6" Rotary table, Metric Dial & Magnetic bace, 14mm 52 piece clamping kit.

Phoned up RDG Tools on Wednesday lunch time, over the phone they done me the cheapest price eather ebay or web price then gave me a discount and then free next day delivery. Arrived by lunch time following day, well packed, im knowone to say what the quality is like but looks good to me so far.

 

[shenion]

Nice!

I picked up an ER40 set similar to yours for my lathe. Has 5 more collets up to 1" Worked well but I lost the through-spindle support using the MT3 adapter. Yours did come in a better case.

So, I made an ER40 chuck to fit the lathe:

Since it was made on the lathe, it has almost no runout snf I can pass work up to 3/4" all the way through the spindle. I do have a small milling attachment (about 3x5") and it works well holding milling cutters.

I think I have the same magnetic dial indicator. Nice, but always seem to be wiping the swarf off of it

 

[busastars]

The er32 set is a MT3 for the Mill, also my S&B lathe is at the headstock MT3. Then the tail stock of the lathe & rotary table are MT2. Makes tooling now usefull for both machines. Some more tooling needed like a machine vice, want new index cutters and also a live center.

Hopefully all tooled up soon

 

[wyn]

Nice bit of gear to get you going.

Have you lifted the mill onto the table yet?

 

[busastars]

Nice bit of gear to get you going.

Have you lifted the mill onto the table yet?

Erm, well, umm, ahhh, geee......

Tomorow lunch time or early evening Wyn, not looking forward to it.
Got a plan of attack though, I may get the trolly over a scafold plank so its not angled to much then I may jack up just the one side till the Mill is level and slide along, failing that two jacks and a few inches at a time.

If all that fails:

 

[wyn]

As you say.. nice and steady, an inch or two at a time and keep adding some sort of wooden packing underneath as you go, so if things aren't going to plan it won't go too far.