Loctite

[Thrashsmith]

I'm making a pair of small garden gates that will go side by side, here's the outer frame and bracing bars of one of them. Vertical bars and ornate leafy scrolls to infill. Hinges will be fixed to the 40mm box section.

That blob on top of the scroll on the 40mm box is a M16 bolt I mutilated to make look like a rivet. I capped the 40mm box with a piece of 8mm plate that I pre drilled a 16mm hole in, and welded a M16 nut welded to the underside, so the bolt/rivet screws down into the top of the 40mm box.

As there was still a smidge of movement in the top bar/scroll I ran a very discreet line of weld under where the scroll rolls up, completely locking it in place to the 40mm box. I want to be sure that bolt has no way of ever wriggleing free, (even though I know it won't left as is, and getting zinc flame sprayed will probably glue it in position anyway, but I'm a worryer...), I don't want to tack weld the bolt head to the scroll.

I've never used Loctite, is it any good? I expect any gunk product will need air to make it set, so I guess I'll have to drill a hole or two in the 40mm box, then plug weld to fill & grind back smoothe?

Thanks in advance.

 

[zzr1200]

Loctite is kept as a fluid by the presents of air in the bottle, its when the fluid/product is placed in a (semi) air tight place it cures, like in a bolt thread so its a good possibility.

Have you also considered an epoxy resin?

The only other thing to consider is that a resin or thread lock type products could be affected by heat, so it depends on how hot the zinc spray process gets the surrounding metal, as to whether it damages the product used.

 

[brightspark]

loctite doesn't like heat that's about all that ruins it

 

[Thrashsmith]

I think zinc flame spray cools almost instantly. I really doubt the blasting & zincing process gets anywhere near hot enough to melt a thread locking gunk.

I'm open to any product suggestions. Stretching my two brain cells to their max capacity I'd imagined I want a gunk that doesn't fully harden, (to avoid becoming brittle), and instead stays slightly platic might be best? Like the plastic on nyloc nuts.

 

[zzr1200]

There are various degrees of Loctite holding ability plus temperature tolerance from fairly easy to undo all the way up to "The Bitch Will Come Undone One Day" strength so have look at the products spec sheet...

 

[GW8IZR]

is it just a decorative part or holding the top rail on? if decorative give the thread a bang with a cold chisel

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Why not drill right the way through the 40mm box, the nut and the thread of the bolt with say an 8mm drill, insert a length of 8mm rod and then weld flush on both sides. A permenant and invisible solution.

 

[zzr1200]

Have a look here:

http://www.loctite.co.uk/products-by-application-4371.htm

http://www.loctite.co.uk/structural-bonding-9628.htm

 

[Thrashsmith]

is it just a decorative part or holding the top rail on? if decorative give the thread a bang with a cold chisel

Ha, well...intended to be structural in holding down the top rail, but as there was a slight wiggle to the top rail I welded the top rail down...so it's now just decorative.

Why not drill right the way through the 40mm box, the nut and the thread of the bolt with say an 8mm drill, insert a length of 8mm rod and then weld flush on both sides. A permenant and invisible solution.

Yeah I'd wondered about that, but thought a thread gunk approach would be easier.

I'll ring the bloke I use for blasting & zincing to find out how hot it gets. I'm pretty sure it cools almost instantly though. T.B.H that's one of the reason I get my work zinc sprayed rather than galv dunked - to avoid heat distortion in fine details like leaves.

 

[Kent]

Imo
Loose the bolt, even if you try and make it look like a rivet your wasting your time- you could have used a rivet
But I shouldn't do either! A plug weld sitting proud will be even easier to make rivet like
Still I don't think it needs either I should just weld it.
Originally the shs would have been solid the two bars forge welded and punched and a tennon from the solid post joining
them.
Does this all matter though? Not really it is what it is " a nice gate" trust me the old smiths took up welding just as soon as they could for a reason

 

[Thrashsmith]

Riveting it would have meant peining the tail before welding the 8mm cap. I didn't do it that way because I'd run the risk of the top rail coming off at a less than perfect angle & the pair not perfectly matching.

I don't yet have a MIG and don't like plug welding with stick because it's too easy to get slag inclusions.

 

[Thrashsmith]

For your interest, I sometimes make videos to post on my business FB page.
Countersunk riveting...

 

[cumbriasteve]

Nice brackets you have made there, some more photo's or videos of your work posted on the forum would be very welcome.

The sign bracket in the other video is exceptional .

 

[Thrashsmith]

Thanks. I'm self taught / self teaching, been torturing metal for about 3 & a half years now. No clue what I'm doing half the time :-)

 

[cumbriasteve]

Thanks. I'm self taught / self teaching, been torturing metal for about 3 & a half years now. No clue what I'm doing half the time :-)

I have tortured it for what seems a millenium longer than that and still have no clue

I made a lot of sign brackets a couple of years back, nothing clever or artistic because I no longer had the methods to heat steel so if I couldn't bend it cold it was a no go, I even sold one to a TV personality, wish I had known who it was before I gave him a price

You are correct in your video about the movement of the sign boards due to weather, I always tried to steer customers away from swinging signs, especially with the lightweight board material used today, any gust at all and they flap around like a sheet unless you put a heavy base bar on to lower the centre of gravity, there are also the limiters but it starts to look cluttered then.

Once that gate is finished get the photo's up for us to see it in all it's glory.

 

[Kent]

You won't have issues with slag inclusion with stick. Just go a bit hotter than normal for the rod and swirl the pool around and around
When the pool is hot and molten the slag all comes to the top great
Inclusions are normally from either long arcing, too cold etc etc. Not a particular issue with plug welds

Nice shop btw. Hold the hammer shaft lower down in use my old mentor would have had a fit about that

 

[fixerupper]

Those are lovely brackets ,nice elegant shape to the curls nice work................. Yeah that was my Dads pet hate ...."There is a reason why hammer handles are made like that , you will pay for that when your my age " he'd say......jeff..

 

[Thrashsmith]

Cheers. Yeah I'm quite lucky that I've just moved into a lovely workshop (old sheep shed) which has been done up to suit me. Whopping 11.5m x 6m, heigh ceiling, 3 phase, a loo, near flat floor, no neighbours, 3m/sq stable doors. The majority of the building is new breeze block & OSB so I tend to aim my phone/camera towards the prettier end so people get all nostalgic & want to put their hand in their pockets.
Progress:

 

[Kent]

How are you proposing to do the slam plates?
Look good I like the shape but I don't like the nut / rivet thing so far
Keep us posted how you work through that one

 

[Thrashsmith]

How are you proposing to do the slam plates?

A nice variation on 2 leaf farm gates where one leaf has a vertically rotating arm on top that closes down over the second leaf once the two leaves are pulled together in alignment.