JASIC 200A AC/DC tripping MCB on startup

[Matrixx]

Hi All ,
just setting up my new tig welder, it says I need a 20A supply, which i dont have at present but i do have a 16A supply for my MIG welder which I have used for now until I can get a 32A supply installed.

I assumed as I am only practicing ie low amps (less than 100A) i shouldn't have a problem.

but on first power up it trips instantly, just a clicking sound the leds flicker then trip, i thought it shouldn't need a large power surge switching on as its an inverter not a transformer, so the electronics usually soft start .
Question: should it power up on a 16 A MCB type B?? or have i got a faulty welder??

 

[Brad93]

You’ve got a faulty machine there mate or it has got a wiring fault.

 

[Matrixx]

That's my line of thinking as it should not draw any heavy power until your welding ( i assume).

 

[Brad93]

That's my line of thinking as it should not draw any heavy power until your welding ( i assume).

Exactly.

If you’re mig runs fine then the tig should run fine. I’d say there’s an issue with the machine or the internal wiring.

 

[brightspark]

it says u need a 20 amp supply why do u think it should be ok on a 16 on start up with a b type breaker and its faulty . if it were on a 20 id be asking more questions on probable cause

 

[Matrixx]

Well, as it's not a transformer it should have no magnetic inrush, the website I purchased it from gave an option for them to fit a 16 amp plug, and I have seen these on ebay with 13 amp converters.
i'm going to fit a type C 20A MCB and suitable wiring, and see what blows up.

I can't find any info on what is recommended by the manufacturer.

 

[brightspark]

Well, as it's not a transformer it should have no magnetic inrush, the website I purchased it from gave an option for them to fit a 16 amp plug, and I have seen these on ebay with 13 amp converters.
i'm going to fit a type C 20A MCB and suitable wiring, and see what blows up.

I can't find any info on what is recommended by the manufacturer.

I wired a new power washer up that came with a 16 amp plug and kept tripping upped I tto 20 amp and worked fine

 

[Brad93]

I wired a new power washer up that came with a 16 amp plug and kept tripping upped I tto 20 amp and worked fine

Power washer and a welder are two very different things.

A 200A tig should run on a 13A supply.

There is something wrong with your machine mate. Don’t go whacking more current through it.

 

[brightspark]

Power washer and a welder are two very different things.

A 200A tig should run on a 13A supply.

There is something wrong with your machine mate. Don’t go whacking more current through it.

apparently he said it stated a 20 amp supply. if that is the case the amperage wouldn't be over rated and would cut out if a fault did occur. its not just a matter of banging a bigger fuse in and see what happens

 

[skotl]

apparently he said it stated a 20 amp supply. if that is the case the amperage wouldn't be over rated and would cut out if a fault did occur. its not just a matter of banging a bigger fuse in and see what happens

I don't think that's what Brad or Matrixx are suggesting:

on first power up it trips instantly, just a clicking sound the leds flicker then trip

I struck out the "trips instantly" cos it doesn't seem as if it does - it runs for a few seconds, then trips - so a) doesn't sound like the OP has tried to run any welds, so it won't be using anywhere near 20, 16 or 13A and b) the machine's knackered.

 

[Matrixx]

I have managed to track down a 20A MCB C type, I will fit and run some 2.5mm cable to the new 32A socket as I would have to anyway, and try and see what happens, if theres is a short inside it will still trip out before any damage is done, i have seen on the forums that a few people have had similar problems ( not jasic) , a 13A fuse won't be affected by the high inrush current. I work away during the week so need to prove 100% if its the MCB and not the welder, will update as soon as I know the outcome.
just to clarify it trips out in under 1 second - on -led flicker- trip , I ve got it in the back of my mind that there may be some big capacitors in the control circuit.

 

[Richard.]

Just turning the machine on will draw no more than a couple of amps off the mains to spin up the fan and light the display.
Replacing the breaker is only going to give the same results.
The machine is rated to 20amps at full tilt.
Generally 200 amp inverter tigs will draw 16-20 amps at full tilt but because we ain’t maxing them out consistently you can usually get away with a 16amp B and a 13 amp fuse in the plug.
If it’s tripping the breaker straight away my first port of call would be to check for a short on the incoming.

A 200A tig should run on a 13A supply.

Some are better than others brad. Cheaper Sets tend to be less friendly on the supply than the posh ones and I’ve had my own supply at home tripped out at less than 180 amps from cheap welders bought round. Then I’ve had 220 amps out of it on the tweco without a peep so they do vary a lot. Usually with the price of them. It also takes a considerable amount more amps than 13 to blow a 13 amp fuse. (18-20 iirc held for some time). The breaker should go first before the fuse

 

[WorkshopChris]

Is this breaker just for the socket you are testing the welder on or does the circuit already have an existing load connected to it?

 

[Matrixx]

Just the welder as the load will rewire tomorrow and see what happens. It needs to be done anyway.

 

[Matrixx]

New 20A C type fitted, new cable, new 32A socket and plugs, and now it works....so it looks like if you have one of these machines it wont turn on with a 16A B type supply. the electronics are not very efficient, and there must be some big capacitors inside.

 

[Richard.]

New 20A C type fitted, new cable, new 32A socket and plugs, and now it works....so it looks like if you have one of these machines it wont turn on with a 16A B type supply. the electronics are not very efficient, and there must be some big capacitors inside.

Well I’m shocked. (Happy for you mind).
But please don’t take this the wrong way but that’s a crap inverter tig.
I have 3 inverters 1 of which is nearly 23 years old. Both are single phase over 200 amps. Neither one draws any more than an amp or two on tick over. Even with the coolers running they start up drawing 6 amps and drop to 4. Even my transformer mig will start up and run the lower settings on a 16B.

 

[daleyd]

Well I’m shocked. (Happy for you mind).
But please don’t take this the wrong way but that’s a crap inverter tig.
I have 2 inverters 1 of which is nearly 23 years old. Both are single phase over 200 amps. Neither one draws any more than an amp or two on tick over. Even with the coolers running they start up drawing 6 amps and drop to 4. Even my transformer mig will start up and run the lower settings on a 16B.

Notwithstanding some obscure fault on the original circuit breaker, which may not have been apparent with anything else plugged in - these things do happen. (Sounds very unusual though)

 

[Richard.]

Notwithstanding some obscure fault on the original circuit breaker, which may not have been apparent with anything else plugged in - these things do happen. (Sounds very unusual though)

Be interesting to whack a clamp on round one of the cores and see what she pulls on tick. If it’s significantly low then I’d imagine your probably right. Faulty breaker. In all fairness he has done the right thing and supplied it exactly what it requires and it’s going now. Happy days.

 

[daleyd]

Yeah, the only thing that made me mention it was I once got called out to a faulty machine at a customers, the circuit breaker for the touchscreen pc and power supply kept tripping out, swapped it with the exact same rating cb from the fans on the doors and it all worked, but interestingly the “faulty” circuit breaker powered the fans ok without tripping.

As far as I know it worked like that for a few days until the customer got round to changing it for a new one.

 

[Brad93]

As above either a dodgy plug shorting out and tripping the breaker or bad cable/bad breaker.

Unfortunately you’ve changed too much in one hit to ever find out now!