Isocyanates

[RA Dunk]

Here's a nice little write up about Isocyanates for anyone wondering what they actually are and what happens after repeated exposure.

http://www.bodyshopbusiness.com/Art...n_on_body_shops_over_isocyanate_exposure.aspx

 

[Fintray]

In the article it says:

Exposure
Isocyanate exposure can occur in two ways: a large dose hitting a person in a short amount of time via spills, spraying continuously without any respirator protection or – most common – low levels of exposure over a period of time. An example of this is a painter not changing out their respirator cartridges frequently enough and therefore breathing in a little dose of isocyanates every day until they change the cartridge.

In the UK the likes of 3M do not have a cartridge suitable for isocyanates as there is no warning you wouldn't know you are being exposed.

Disposable coveralls, gloves and full face air fed respirator are the way to go to prevent exposure.

 

[RA Dunk]

Out of curiosity, would it be safe to use paint/spray Isocyanates out doors or in an open area with a 3M mask?

 

[mr paint]

On a very windy day maybe ...but this would fall under the regs of smart repair and repair panel should be no bigger than 12x12 iirc
if you got cought doing any more you could possibly be fined

you also have to think of others not just you ...hence why booth exhausts are usually 6 ft above roof hight


T

 

[mr paint]

Some good info in there tho RA Dunk .... a guy I know has been painting for 20+ years no mask no ppe Crazy days !!

 

[Fintray]

Out of curiosity, would it be safe to use paint/spray Isocyanates out doors or in an open area with a 3M mask?

The risk from isocyanate exposure is far smaller if applying the paint by either brush or roller as you are not creating a breathable mist.

 

[mike k]

What about environment protection - the guy who done a accident repair and full respray for me vents his unit straight to atmosphere with no filtration and there are other businesses around him. The guy is a gobs hit, took 2 attempts and 3 months and he still couldn't get the door panel straight. Then he got a bit mouthy on the phone thinking a wouldn't go and see him, that was a mistake.

**Mod note: Please don't name and shame on this forum**

 

[Parm]

Out of curiosity, would it be safe to use paint/spray Isocyanates out doors or in an open area with a 3M mask?

Filtering respiratory protection is not recommended for isocyanates as filters require the we rarer to taste or smell chemicals that are being filtered thus indicating that break through gas occured and that the filter needs to be changed. Isocyanates have no smell or taste therefore this method of determining filter change is not advisable. That's why in the industrial hygiene world the only approved (COSHH REGS) type of RPE is an fir fed full face respirator or visor. No filter required !

 

[Parm]

On a very windy day maybe ...but this would fall under the regs of smart repair and repair panel should be no bigger than 12x12 iirc
if you got cought doing any more you could possibly be fined

you also have to think of others not just you ...hence why booth exhausts are usually 6 ft above roof hight


T

There are guidelines on how tall the chimney has to be, these are based on the volumes of solvent used, topography of the local environment and the proximity of sensitive receptors. With all this data you can do a D 1 stack height calculation that has to be submitted to and reviewed by the permitting authority before permission is given, done properly the whole lot costs around £20k

 

[mike k]

What about environment protection - the guy who done a accident repair and full respray for me vents his unit straight to atmosphere with no filtration and there are other businesses around him. The guy is a gobs hit, took 2 attempts and 3 months and he still couldn't get the door panel straight. Then he got a bit mouthy on the phone thinking a wouldn't go and see him, that was a mistake.

**Mod note: Please don't name and shame on this forum**

the idea of a public forum is for people to share knowledge, experiences, advice and recommendations. If someone is in business pretending to be a body shop but aren't actually capable of doing the work to an acceptable and safe manner they should be named and shamed. Never heard of such nonsense of a forum and goes against the whole principle of shared knowledge. So next time someone asks about a certain tool and someone says they are poor quality and not upto the task in hand are you going to edit that? Been on a few forums and never heard such nonsense. And I am pretty sure that Chris from said body shop has Google send him alerts whenever his place is mentioned so he can defend himself publicly via he so chooses and I would put anything on a forum I would or haven't said to someone in person.

I even use my real name so I don't hide behind a computer.

mike kerr

 

[ajlelectronics]

The trouble with naming and shaming is that it is YOUR OPINION. There may be perfectly valid reasons for someone doing something that you might not like, but you cannot act as judge and jury, particularly in the absence of the "defendant". It would be as wrong as me telling the world how Mike Kerr is a "insert suitable comment" on the forums that I frequent.

 

[Robotstar5]

What happens when a "named & shamed" company takes the forum owner to court?, would you be willing to pay Malcolms costs?

 

[mike k]

The trouble with naming and shaming is that it is YOUR OPINION. There may be perfectly valid reasons for someone doing something that you might not like, but you cannot act as judge and jury, particularly in the absence of the "defendant". It would be as wrong as me telling the world how Mike Kerr is a "insert suitable comment" on the forums that I frequent.

Not opinion but fact. If you are in the accident repair business and you can't pull and fill dents to remove/hide the damage before painting and even after 3 attempt they are clearly visible then you aren't competant. Simple. And judging by your post you sound like a bit of a troll so no more replies I will make to you.

What happens when a "named & shamed" company takes the forum owner to court?, would you be willing to pay Malcolms costs?

like when people say certain equipment isn't upto the job a manufacturer says it is. You really need to get out in the real world and stop watching American TV one thinks.

I know I shouldn't feed these sort of replies but hey they need something to be pist about obviously and they generally don't provide any useful insight in my experience anyhow. Just reactionaries.

mike

 

[Daz1968]

A lot of the comments on the link don't really make sense compared to the hse website, the primary cause of asthma is breathing the paint mist and the spillage of paint on the skin causes dermatitis but this is not a route for the isocyanate to get into the blood stream. I can see no reason to worry when mixing paint or applying by brush or roller after reading the above link it started to make me think about using the stuff, biggest concern on the link is the use of filter masks that can't ensure none is breathed in.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/mvr/bodyshop/myths/myth9.htm

 

[RA Dunk]

Is there any kind of filtered or non air fed masks suitable for this? Can anything be shipped in from abroad?

 

[brightspark]

Is there any kind of filtered or non air fed masks suitable for this? Can anything be shipped in from abroad?

theres these http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Gerson-2K...ace-Mask-/350690393436?_trksid=p2054897.l5662 ive used disposable masks regular with 2k and never had a problem . but its the chance u take. some people are more suceptible than others .dust and fibreglass lagging knocks the stuffing out of me . other things dont

 

[RA Dunk]

Cheers Brightspark, As I'll only be doing little bits and bobs with the odd set of wheels in a open area I think I might just go with one of those masks, it's not as though I'm a full time painter using it everyday.

This is the mask I currently use http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3M-4251-0...=UK_BOI_ProtectiveGear_RL&hash=item1c3be1c143

 

[mr paint]

Please understand the statement of paint booth having no filters etc ..... the filters are only a paint arrester this will still allow paint vapours and others pass through it as it is an exhaust ...so with filters or not there is always going to be a risk . filters are there to remove overspray and to stop exhaust fans etc having large build up of paint on them .

But as Brightspark said the gerson 2k masks are ok ...I have used them and 3m masks for years and have no issues YET

As said its a risk you take getting involved in this line of work


Tommy

 

[RA Dunk]

Cheers Mr Paint!