Is this a good deal ???

[andy m]

Looks good to me ??( I THOUGHT i'D NEED TO SPEND 2K??) All I know they are American ?? for a tig it seams a good deal, may be with the extras it bumps it up to average priced machines ?? Any thoughts??

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thermal-A...636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a28c80d24

 

[armalites]

Looks good to me ??( I THOUGHT i'D NEED TO SPEND 2K??) All I know they are American ?? for a tig it seams a good deal, may be with the extras it bumps it up to average priced machines ?? Any thoughts??

I'm guessing you meant to put a link up?

 

[Wozzaaah]

Any thoughts??

Yes, I think you should tell us what you're on about!

 

[andy m]

Ha ha edited now,, I wasn't quick enough .

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Thermal-A...636?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2a28c80d24

 

[armalites]

The R-Tech 200A has a far better duty cycle (100% @ 160A) for £100 more and they are fairly local. 2 year warranty and they collect them for repairs if they ever need them.

I don't have one but there's a lot of good stuff written about them.

 

[Mid Wales welder]

Also R-Tech have this on special offer at the mo £999 inc VAT, comes with a free foot pedel too! But there is also nothing wrong with the thermal arc machines and there are plenty of suppliers in this country.

 

[andy m]

Ok as I'm a newbie what does the "better duty cycle" mean in simple terms/ i WAS TRYING TO AVOID cHINESE BUT IN FAIRNESS i USED AN R TECH MIG AT COLLEGE LAST WEEK AND IT WAS A GOOD BIT OF KIT.

 

[Wozzaaah]

The duty cycle is basically the time you can weld vs the time the machine needs to cool at a given current so 100% @ 160A means it can run constantly at 160A and requires no cooling down time.
It's usually measured over a 10 minute period so if the figure quoted is 40% @ 160A it would mean you could theoretically only weld for 4 mins within a 10 minute period and the machine would need 6 mins to cool down.
The quoted figures are normally given with a certain temperature, maybe 40 degs.
It's a way of standardising specs but is a bit vague as not all manufacturers use the same temperature and tbh, they probably fudge the figures the same as car manufacturers do with MPG etc.
In layman's terms, bigger is better.

 

[hotrodder]

The Thermal Arc you linked to is also of Chinese origin IIRC... While the brand name is American they have kit made/rebadge stuff from various manufacturers in various countries. The older Arcmaster 200 is/was made by Sanrex (big Japanese electronics company that've been making welding kit for eons) IIRC, is over twice the price and is well respected. The 202 hasn't been around for long enough to get a proper reputation but i'd be very suprised if they weren't careful when choosing a supplier/speccing things.

Duty cycle is the machine equivilant of having to rest after running flat out. It's measured over 10 minutes so a 60% duty cycle means if you weld non stop for 6 mins the machine will have to idle for 4 to cool down. With stick and TIG you have to keep stopping to change electrodes/grab another length of filler wire i.e. it's much less of a deal than with MIG where you can keep going. The way duty cycle is measured (temperature etc) has a big effect on the results and while it can make a useful comparison it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt...
the Miller Dynasty 200 has a duty cycle of 20% @ 200A which on paper is pants compared to machines costing a fraction of the price yet it's one of most highly regarded bits of kit out there
More important imo than the duty cycle running flat out are the numbers @ 100% duty cycle and duty cycle needs to be considered along with input power (kVA etc) i.e. the more expensive European/US made kit are often a chunk more efficient

Doh! must refresh page before posting

 

[matt1978]

Hotrodder is correct as is Wozzah. Especially about the duty cycle for the Miller machine. If they state a DC you can bet it will do that as a minimum as its probably actually underrated not overrated.

The European Duty Cycle norms for CE marking are supposed to be tested at 40 Deg ambient temperature. No ifs/No Buts. But some manufacturers also state 25 Deg and as its considered more 'real' world in Western Europe. Some manufacturers also state duty cycles at temps as low as 15 degrees so in order to make the performance appear better. Also not all companies own a Climatic cabinet so how can they say for sure it is a certain performance at a certain temp?? Most of it at best a guesstimate and a worst a total fabrication.

A lot of the data shown is vastly mis-leading. Around 70% of units sold in Europe have false info on the data plate. The only thing I would mildly disagree with Wozz on is about the cars and the MPG rating and I would only disagree in the sense that some of the info on some of the welding units is a total falsification, for example the might say its a 220 amp and will display 220 amp on the LCD but really it's only capable of welding 200 amps or they'll say it's 60% at 100 amps at 40 deg when in reality it might only be 45%. With cars they certainly massage the truth and the figures they quote and not so easy to achieve in real world conditions but I would seriously doubt that they are completely made up as is the case with some welding machines.

 

[andy m]

Thanks that makes sense. So R tech and Thermalarc about same quality except the duty cycle differences . Both reasonable money .....