Is The Price You Pay For Steel A Reflection On The Market Price?

[Wendelspanswick]

With the latest job losses in steel production being put down to the market being flooded with cheap foreign steel have you noticed a dramatic decrease in the cost of steel to the door or is it being 'absorbed' by the wholesale stockists?

 

[Welderpaul]

Steel prices are actually going up. It's jumped up £15 a tonne a fortnight ago, not a great deal, but a stop to the constant fall in price.

 

[Robotstar5]

Steel prices are actually going up. It's jumped up £15 a tonne a fortnight ago, not a great deal, but a stop to the constant fall in price.

So how do you quote for a job that's due to start in 6 months time?, building in a percentage to cover rising material costs could make your quote uncompetitive.

 

[Welderpaul]

So how do you quote for a job that's due to start in 6 months time?, building in a percentage to cover rising material costs could make your quote uncompetitive.

Steel prices are reasonably stable, so just price on today's prices. A few years ago it was so volatile we only held prices for 3 days!
Generally a job that isn't going to start for 6 months won't have a sufficiently-progressed design that we could give a definite price anyway. We would quote a budget price, which would then inevitably be repriced just before starting anyway so we would check the steel prices we had used.

 

[ronan]

I don't want to stray into the world of politics, but why is the eu the only area in the world NOT to protect its own industries ? The chinese certainly do, they refuse to slow down production and are dumping their vast surplus into the eu market, and the eu let them, leading to the job losses in wales directly.

 

[ronan]

Some member countries of the EU protect their own industry - we're not one of them...

There has just been an mp on the channel 4 news, asked why the government cannot subsidise steel production until the market picks up, she said that is not allowed under eu trade rules.

 

[blenkie1]

everybody seems to be blaming China but most of the steel I get is from Turkey. Probably buying some of the Ark Royal back.

 

[lexi]

Steel prices are reasonably stable, so just price on today's prices. A few years ago it was so volatile we only held prices for 3 days!
Generally a job that isn't going to start for 6 months won't have a sufficiently-progressed design that we could give a definite price anyway. We would quote a budget price, which would then inevitably be repriced just before starting anyway so we would check the steel prices we had used.

How long do your quotes last then Paul?

 

[ronan]

Probably buying some of the Ark Royal back.

See if you can buy the rest and you have a cracking welding project !

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Just heard on the news that 1 ton of imported Chinese steel is cheaper than 1 ton of imported Chinese cabbages!

 

[ronan]

I bought some steel for a project for the gun club last year, it turned out to be chinese steel, it had a strange grey colour to it and seemed to be more slightly brittle than i would expect for mild steel. Anyone else notice that ?

 

[Richard.]

I bought some steel for a project for the gun club last year, it turned out to be chinese steel, it had a strange grey colour to it and seemed to be more slightly brittle than i would expect for mild steel. Anyone else notice that ?

Not so much brittle but Lamellar tearing is a common thing seen in Micky mouse metal. I've seen it on thick section where it's opened right up like a sandwich. Poor quality steels contain a lot of sulphur too. If your welding it with high penetrating processes that dilute well into the steel the sulphur content dragged into the puddle can cause a crack right down the face. Solidification cracking I believe it's proper name.

 

[ronan]

Not so much brittle but Laminar tearing is a common thing seen in Micky mouse metal. I've seen it on thick section where it's opened right up like a sandwich. Poor quality steels contain a lot of sulphur too. If your welding it with high penetrating processes that dilute well into the steel the sulphur content dragged into the puddle can cause a crack right down the face. Solidification cracking I believe it's proper name.

The thicker steel (12mm) did seem very grainy.

 

[Richard.]

The thicker steel (12mm) did seem very grainy.

Could be small lamellar tears. They are not uncommon in cheap imported metal.

 

[ronan]

I think you are right richard. The job didn't call for any strength so it didn't really matter, but i would upset if i had bought it for something stressed.

 

[Richard.]

Lamellar tearing is the wrong terminology as I think that's a welding defect. (Forgive me it's been a while) it's laminations I'm thinking of which is basically s##t squashed into the steel during rolling which creates an inclusion and the steel isn't fully formed in that area which can cause it to tear and as you say I suppose yes appear to be brittle too.

 

[ronan]

Lamellar tearing is the wrong terminology as I think that's a welding defect. (Forgive me it's been a while) it's laminations I'm thinking of which is basically s##t squashed into the steel during rolling which creates an inclusion and the steel isn't fully formed in that area which can cause it to tear and as you say I suppose yes appear to be brittle too.

Yes i got that impression, the steel was dull and dirty, with as i said an odd grey colour.

 

[skotl]

Some member countries of the EU protect their own industry - we're not one of them...

Indeed. Germany in particular has a very strong manufacturing base due, in part, to legislation that says if any outside company buys a German company then no jobs can be shipped outside the country.
Funny how the people who shout loudest for European harmony are at the same time the masters of protectionism...

 

[BrokenBiker]

People selling steel and people making steel are 2 totally different markets...I recently interviewed at a place that buys in coils, cuts to size and sells on...the site manager said they were looking to expand in the near future as they can't keep up with the market without having more space to store uncut coils

 

[TechnicAl]

The EU do put tariffs on imports. I dont know if chinese steel has any but last year they popped 5 or 10% on top of the duty for Indian Stainless welding wire. The problem is they use identity numbers and the unscrupulous pretend its something else "fencing wire" or something. What happened for the most part was the Indians paid it.

There was also Import Duty on mild steel but its never added up to much. There has been times when we couldnt work out how some of them were selling at the prices we heard quoted until you delve deeper. Turkey were getting 5% export assistance so they were selling at cost and making the 5%.

When we had the Iron and Steel Community the Lincoln plant in Sheffield bought steel from Rouen France, whilst the Lincoln plant in Rouen bought steel from Scunthorpe. It was cheaper that way. It was a ruling about transportation that someone got wrong.

Its not the UK who set the rules. The difference is we have manufacturing who will buy chinese steel. The germans or the dutch wont touch it. Its a mind set. Dont get me started on Engineers v Accountants but thats the basis.