Is it me or the machine?

[Sublimer]

Hi, I'm new to this forum & new to welding of any kind (I've done some braising). I need to make multiple stainless steel boxes that are welded, so I bought a cheap gasless welder off of eBay (I don't have a lot of disposable income). It's black & called the "130". It's always "on" (regardless of whether I push the button) & has no polarity options. I was practicing on SS sheet metal but no matter what settings I change or how fast or slow the wire comes out or what angle I hold it at, the metal turns black, burns through & spatters. I've watched video after video but none of what I'm doing looks anything like what I see in the videos. What I was hoping someone could tell me is if I keep practicing will I ever be able to weld this SS sheet metal with this machine or should I just return it and try to save up for a better welder? Please see image (this was my fifth piece of practice scrap) & thank you in advance.

 

[Tom Orrow L]

Are you using stainless flux cored wire? Because it certainly doesn't look like it. Gasless welders require flux to create a shield around the arc to protect it. It's not possible to just use bare wire to weld with on gasless.

 

[hotrodder]

^^ This. I've got a vague recollection that gasless (aka self shielded) flux core stainless wire is a pretty rare beast too(?) with most fluxcore stainless wire being dual shield i.e. gas shielded flux core

 

[Arclikeharrypotter]

It's about hotrodder but you certainly pay for it! Sublimer If you are going to be doing a few welding projects here and there I'd save up for a decent welder, do some research etc. If not I'd flog it still and pay someone else to weld these for you.

 

[Spark plug]

Judging by the way the stainless is crumpled in the picture it appears to be berry thin, less than 1mm?

 

[armalites]

I would say the honest answer is a bit of both.

A cheap welder that sounds like it isn't working properly and someone who is new to welding trying Mig something that is less forgiving than steel.

 

[WorkshopChris]

Personally i would say if you have no welding experience take it back, save up for some gas and a scratch start tig set.
If you have to learn then you might as well learn on the ideal process for your task.
Even to start with poor tig weld will probably look better and be stronger that a poor mig weld.

Either that or if your stainless is thicker get a MMA welder and some stainless rods. Just watch out as the flux pings off.

 

[Sublimer]

Thank you for all your suggestions- I really appreciate it. I just assumed that the wire that came with the machine was flux cored but maybe not? I could try buying some flux core & if that doesn't work take it back. The SS is 20 gauge I believe.

 

[octo0072000]

pictures of the welder and the wire will help but
thin SS and cheap welder is not going to go well even thin steel and cheap welder don,t mix well

 

[Tom Orrow L]

Thank you for all your suggestions- I really appreciate it. I just assumed that the wire that came with the machine was flux cored but maybe not? I could try buying some flux core & if that doesn't work take it back. The SS is 20 gauge I believe.

Even if it was FCAW wire it wouldn't be stainless steel unfortunately stainless steel flux core wire is rather expensive and usually only available in 15KG reels. Plus.. flux cores wire runs hotter than has shielded wire and on 20 gauge you'd most likely end up blowing holes even at low amps.

 

[Sublimer]

It's hard to weld with a toys r us welder, make no mistake about that. Like you say, take it back & get a better one.

That's funny- actually I don't even think it's Toys-R-Us quality, more like Walmart. What do you guys think about oxyacetylene gas welding stainless instead- do you think I would have better luck?

 

[Sublimer]

Here's what the welder looks like

 

[Tom Orrow L]

The funny thing is.. with the right wire and gas it would probably weld fine. It's just the fact that you're completely missing any sort of shielding.

 

[Sublimer]

OMG, I'm an idiot- my daughter wanted to look at the "weld" I made, so I showed her. She just happened to have a magnet in her hand she was playing with & I noticed it was having no interaction with the sheet of metal- then it hit me, this isn't stainless steel! The person who sold it to me either lied or was mistaken. I wondered why it was so light but I've never worked with stainless before. Other than aluminum foil, I've never really worked with aluminum either. Now I have to either get some real stainless steel or figure out how to mig weld aluminum. Thanks for the help anyways!

 

[Hood]

Stainless is not magnetic, well some grades are slightly magnetic but nothing like steel.
It does look like stainless from the pic and also I think it would look totally different where the blasted holes are if it were Alu.

 

[gt6s]

Stainless is not magnetic, well some grades are slightly magnetic but nothing like steel.
It does look like stainless from the pic and also I think it would look totally different where the blasted holes are if it were Alu.

Would be very inclined to agree with that. If aluminium the holes would be big melted out blobs. Buy a better welder live torches are REAL OLD HAT !

Laurence

 

[hotrodder]

While the most common flavours (3xx series) of stainless aren't magnetic/show only a slight attraction when cold worked enough plenty of the other grades are strongly magnetic. While aluminium has a much lower melting temp than steels you typically need more power to weld it because of it's high thermal conductivity [/pedantic] I've no idea what the result of trying to weld aluminium with stainless wire and no shielding gas looks like but (bearing mind it's difficult to id metals from a pic!) that sheet looks more like ally than stainless to me now i've zoomed in on the pic for a closer look. Spark test would quickly confirm i.e. attack it with an angle grinder and if you get sparks it's not aluminium, no sparks and it almost certainly is

If you can't change the polarity then the welder is pretty much set up for gasless only and presumably doesn't have a gas solenoid if the torch is permantly live

 

[Richard.]

It looks more like aluminium to me too than stainless and the crease in the top right hand corner would suggest it's either had a hell of a belt or it's a soft material as stainless would take a considerable amount more force to deform it like that. As said above one touch with a powered abrasive or even a pull about in a vice would pretty much confirm it instantly.
I too do not know what unshielded SS wire on Alu looks like but if I had to imagine it your 1st pic would be something near.
It's all too easy for people to say "cheap welder take it back" but that's just a back seat useless comment. The ops post is a clue (gas less SS.) The pics then confirm that dispite the material it's going on, gas should be used with that wire whatever it may be.
There are a few ways to tell the flux cores apart. First is size. In a lot of cases FC gas less wires are 0.9mm.
Cut it. You'll find it squashes and cuts easily where a solid wire takes a little force then snap it's though.
If it's a seamed wire you will feel the seam on the wire from where the strip has been rolled. Some are seamless tubes. Again after a cut you'll see on the cross section if it's tube or solid.
I'd look at other alternatives for SS. Gas less Mig is horrible and by the sound of it the consumable you need is pricey and hard to come by.
If SS is your bag then a little inverter stick set with lift Tig would be a nicer option.

 

[gt6s]

A live torch is no way to learn MIG. As previously said live torch is old hat. While you still have the opportunity change it.

Laurence