Is it 170 or have i been mugged?

[Christof]

Hello

I have just bought a SWP (Redline) MIG-170 TURBO. Advert was undoubtedly clear that this mig is a 170 max amp machine.

However, the user book and the details on the machine would imply otherwise.

I can get a pictures up, however, they state:-

User book:-

Voltage Setting 2. Rated Output Current 50A. Rated Output Voltage 16.5V. Duty cycle 100%.
Voltage Setting 4. R O C 70A. R O V 17.5V. Duty cycle 60%.
Voltage Setting 6. R O C 140A. ROV 21V. Duty Cycle 15%.

Voltage setting is from 0-6. Wire speed 0-10.

On the front panel of machine there is a graph which includes.
40A/16V --- 140A/21V.
15%. 140A. 21V
60%. 70A. 17.5V
100%. 55A. 16.7V

Perhaps I have missed something and this might be just indicative of the typical range of use, however, nothing would indicate this is a 170amp welder other than the name and the advert.

It's massive compared with my clarke 135te and has the look of a powerful machine, however, i'm a bit confused and frustrated by this. If it only puts out 10 amps more than my clarke, i'm going to have to make a grumpy call.

Your advice is much appreciated.

Regards

 

[Christof]

This is from the advert:-

Mains Connection: 1-230V
Fuse: 16A
Welding Current: 40-170A
Voltage Steps: 6
Duty Cycle: 30% = 140A 60% = 70A 100% = 55A

 

[keith19]

The figures you quote probably give the normal working spec. It may be capable of 160A or even 170A for a very short duty cycle, perhaps around 15% at 160A, and 10% or less at 170.

If it's a very short duty cycle at the top end they probably don't like to publicise it, as it may put some prospects off buying.
Even Clarke 160s don't put out 160A, remember; they have a shortish duty cycle at 150A which is rarely if ever quoted anywhere...

 

[Christof]

Thank you for your response.

I think we would all agree that welder title numbers have to be treated with caution, however, the figures quoted in my second post (from the advert) are certainly wrong/misleading. The manual/machine quotes 15% at 140 (not 30%), which would imply that i would be lucky to get a few percent at 170 BUT the manual states 140 amps at setting 6 (max). How would i get the extra amps? There's no turning it up to '11' on this amp! (to quote a film).

Thanks

 

[keith19]

Either the manual or the advert is wrong.
I should imagine the advert is closer to the truth, the figures given there would suggest a short duty cycle of 160 or 170A.
Perhaps what has happened is that the manual is a generic one that covers earlier models or lower powered models in their range. I have known this happen with stuff imported, and caused considerable anguish until the mistake was discovered.

A 16A input fuse suggests an output max of around 150 - !60A on a modern welder

Very odd about the same figures as the manual being on the m/c plate though. This suggests that either they continued with old plates on newer or more powerful m/cs, or that whoever sold it to you has advertised it as a 170A when it is actually a 140A. Do you have any way of testing the max output, if only butting up a bit of heavy plate?

 

[Robotstar5]

The data plate & the handbook state 140A max, so the advert must be wrong (misleading)

 

[Christof]

i'll have a chat with swp tomorrow, fingers crossed. I find it unlikely that the manual and machine plate are both wrong, and the manual is specific to the 170.
crossed swords with supplier to follow

 

[keith19]

Had a quick search but couldn't find any of several advertisers who gave a spec. sheet.
On those m/c pictures in the ads, every one had 'Mig 170 Turbo' clearly marked on the case, so I take it yours is marked as a 170 as well? Pity the pics were too small to read the details on the front plate, in every advert.

If the case front clearly states it is a 170, and the m/c plate states it only does 140, something is seriously wrong...

 

[Wedg1e]

User book:-

Voltage Setting 2. Rated Output Current 50A. Rated Output Voltage 16.5V. Duty cycle 100%.
Voltage Setting 4. R O C 70A. R O V 17.5V. Duty cycle 60%.
Voltage Setting 6. R O C 140A. ROV 21V. Duty Cycle 15%.

That line suggests it can only manage 140A for 15% of the time, what % could it manage at 170A - IF it's capable of it?

Of course they might argue that MIG170 is just a model number; they could have called it MIG25000 and it could still be a 140A set... although I appreciate it's traditional to imply the set's output in the model number.

 

[matt1978]

Its not nowadays traditional to imply a max output by the model number. Manufacturers mislead. People think they are buying a larger output machine than they actually are. Lorch comissioned some independant research and they said that 70% of the data plates on machines sold in Europe had misleading information on!

I think that by EU law the data plate should specify the duty cycle at max power of the machine. So if it only states 140 amps then I'd guess its only 140.

I am not saying that all hobbiest/diy users of machines should rush out and pay maybe 2 or 3 times the price for a recognised European or American quality brand, after all its horses for coarses but its examples like this as to why they are more expensive and cost shouldn't be the only deciding factor.

 

[keith19]

Hey Christoff, how did you get on with this one?

 

[Christof]

I have been speaking with the manufacturer and there were two outcomes:-

1) they apologised for the misleading advert info re %'s, have informed their suppliers who will change this and they sent me a 0.8 wire reel and a load of tips as a gesture of goodwill (come with 0.6)

2) they have confirmed in writing that the machine has tested as capable of c.172 amps (at full load on high wire speed i believe). i'm sure this machine has enough puff for me to do <4mm welding which is all i would ever need. It is massive compared with my clarke 135te

They mentioned this is a chinese machine, albeit they said it has been specd with better components than other machines from said country - proof in pudding of course

new snag is that i can't see how to attach the gas hose to the regulator. I'm pretty sure it needs a nozzle to be screwed on the side, over which the pipe slides and then is fixed in place with a mini jubilee clip - have asked them about this, seems an obvious error to exclude this?

 

[Christof]

received nozzles in post - sorted!

 

[keith19]

Glad to hear it's sorted, should be well okay for <4.0 mm, and probably more for short welds. You'll probably get away with a 13 amp plug for most settings.