I'm after a big fella!

[Wozzaaah]

Hi all, I'm looking for a machine to replace my not very old Butters 211. It's only about 2 years old and a nice machine but it's not the machine for me. I do most of my work with long welds on 6mm plate and so want a machine that will cope with that with plenty in reserve. The duty cycle on the butters is not very high so i suffer a lot of downtime waiting for the machine to cool down. I'm limited to single phase as i can't afford to go down the 3 phase rotary converter route. I'm looking for a powerful/ high duty cycle / well built machine for around £1000.
The few I've shortlisted are;
rotec 361, which seems favourite so far but i need more info on duty cycles, i.e 100%
the specs are 40-360 amps, 24 steps, 60%@350amps
MTA 311 60%@300amps which i believe rotec sell as their own brand and also portamig?
Migatronic MIG 301 also 60%@300amps
I did also look at the Butters 311 but the duty cycle at 60% is only 240amps
Rotec also do a 40-360amp machine with a seperate wire feed unit which i may consider as the duty cycle is 60%@350amps and 100%@270amps.
Any opinions on the above or any other recommendations?
Regards,
Wozzaaah

 

[MigTig]

A good secondhand 3 phase machine AND 3 phase converter box will probably be the same cost as a new 'decent' powerful single phase machine, and you will get a little more penetration, and better quality welds

Ebay turns up some fantastic deals on 3 phase machines. A good service and they are good to go for many more years..

 

[MigTig]

Failing the above, PM Weldequip, who supplies industrial mig welders, and could surley kit you up with something decent
I will be purchasing a new 211 in a few months from him.

 

[DIY Welding]

The rotec machine is the same make as the portamig just a different badge what size wire are you using? also you have to think of supply if you are going single phase this large then the supply will 50A the Butters mig 411 has the following duty cycles 300A @100% 340A @60% 400A@ 35% at 300A you are in spray transfer on 1.2mm wire

 

[Wozzaaah]

A good secondhand 3 phase machine AND 3 phase converter box will probably be the same cost as a new 'decent' powerful single phase machine, and you will get a little more penetration, and better quality welds

Ebay turns up some fantastic deals on 3 phase machines. A good service and they are good to go for many more years..

Thanks MigTig but i've looked into the phase converter route but one to run a decent 3 phase welder would set me back around £1700 plus the cost of the welder so it's just not practical. I'm going to have to stick to single phase for now.

 

[Wozzaaah]

The rotec machine is the same make as the portamig just a different badge what size wire are you using? also you have to think of supply if you are going single phase this large then the supply will 50A the Butters mig 411 has the following duty cycles 300A @100% 340A @60% 400A@ 35% at 300A you are in spray transfer on 1.2mm wire

Thanks for your reply.
I only use 0.8mm wire as most of my stuff is 5-6mm plate with the occasional bit of 8 or 10mm. The Butters 411 does look like a nice machine and has all the power I'd need but is just a little out of my price range. Supply isn't too much of a problem, but I'm limited to 58 amps total load due to the cable length from my house to my workshop (65m). Fuse ratings seem to be a little overestimated to me as my clarke stick welder asks for a 32 amp supply but as a test i thought i'd see how far i could crank it before it blew a 13a fuse and it ran at max!
Woz

 

[weldequip]

Fuse ratings seem to be a little overestimated to me as my clarke stick welder asks for a 32 amp supply but as a test i thought i'd see how far i could crank it before it blew a 13a fuse and it ran at max!

The mainstream suppliers do tend to go OTT on their supply ratings, just to cover themselves I suppose. The figures from the established specialists would be the ones to use as a firm guide:-
Portamig 311
40-310 Amps
60% @ 300 Amps
100% @ 230 Amps
40A fuse rating
Portamig 361
40-360 Amps
60% @ 350 Amps
100% @ 270 Amps
50A Fuse rating

weldequip

 

[Drains]

. The figures from the established specialists would be the ones to use
Portamig 311


weldequip

No doubt in your mind then Steve? Up there with Miller and Lincoln!?

lol

Just can't help meself

Si

 

[weldequip]

Better than Lincoln & Miller Si, compare the figures!
weldequip

 

[snowcat]

No doubt in your mind then Steve? Up there with Miller and Lincoln!?

lol

Just can't help meself

Si

I should think there up there with fronius in steves mind

 

[shenion]

Better than Lincoln & Miller Si, compare the figures!
weldequip

Depends on what Miller or Lincoln you are comparing to.

My Miller CP-250A beats the 311 settings:

330A 60%
300A 68%
250A 100%



But then again it is not the low-end Miller.

I also have a Lincoln R3S-325A with a 325A/100% rating.

 

[weldequip]

Comparable for the price. Lincoln & Miller have nothing, nor do Fronious Snowcat. (they start in the thousands and, although outstanding bits of kit, you will be looking at suitably inflated service/repair bills when they go wrong... Inverters )
weldequip

 

[shenion]

Yes, the low-end Miller and Lincoln cant match price. This is where Clarke is kicking their butt (and probably Portamig.)

The current version of the R3S (now 400A 100% duty) is about $3k US, then you need a wire feeder. My Miller is 27 years old, had a corroded out fuse to get working. The Lincoln is probably 17 years old and still good as new. Yes, probably a bend-over rate on service, but rarely is needed.

You pay a fortune for these big industrial units. But they will last forever.

Yes, Inverters scare me. Too new tech, need some that have survived the test of time, like the old transformer/variac based ones (The Miller is that way). I bet the early versions of those had a high failure rate.

 

[snowcat]

I think inverters have now become v reliable my original cebora doing 10 years, before it was spiked with a genny, the lincoln is about 4 years and the latest fronius which is a S/H 3year old ish, The only machine that has cost me in recent years in the kemmpi tig £200+ for the pcb, but that machine is not inverter based.