How are Southwest Gas Cylinders delivered?

[Splatterer]

As in, do they have a plastic bung tamper seal or something?
Should they also have PTFE tape on the valve to cylinder joint?

I've just paid for a 20l Argon, plus the deposit got it ready to play (as in just bought a kit to convert my stick to lift tig and wish to learn) tonight and found it's empty.
Quite obviously, the chap in the Motor factors supplying it has re-issued me an empty by mistake.
Quite obviously, in my innocence, I failed to check it at the shop.

So before going back to the stockist, can anyone tell me what sort of top seal I ought to expect to be on a Southwest gas bottle, please?

And how would I check a bottle is actually full?
I had thought that a liquid would shake but a compressed gas like argon would not. Hence just accepting the bottle.

As you can probably guess, I am new to TIGing and went via the rent free route rather than adding to my BOC account for the MIG.

 

[Paul99]

As in, do they have a plastic bung tamper seal or something?
Should they also have PTFE tape on the valve to cylinder joint?

I've just paid for a 20l Argon, plus the deposit got it ready to play (as in just bought a kit to convert my stick to lift tig and wish to learn) tonight and found it's empty.
Quite obviously, the chap in the Motor factors supplying it has re-issued me an empty by mistake.
Quite obviously, in my innocence, I failed to check it at the shop.

So before going back to the stockist, can anyone tell me what sort of top seal I ought to expect to be on a Southwest gas bottle, please?

And how would I check a bottle is actually full?
I had thought that a liquid would shake but a compressed gas like argon would not. Hence just accepting the bottle.

As you can probably guess, I am new to TIGing and went via the rent free route rather than adding to my BOC account for the MIG.

Mine came with a clear plastic shrink wrap around the valve that needs ripping off before you can fit a regulator. As for PTFE - yes mine has it showing where the valve screws into the bottle - can't say I've noticed it on a gas bottle before though. That reminds me in the chaos over the last few months I completely forgot to claim the £20 cashback on mine - I'll have to get onto it...

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Yes they come with a brittle plastic shrink wrap round the valve assembly.

 

[mike 109444]

As in, do they have a plastic bung tamper seal or something?
Should they also have PTFE tape on the valve to cylinder joint?

I've just paid for a 20l Argon, plus the deposit got it ready to play (as in just bought a kit to convert my stick to lift tig and wish to learn) tonight and found it's empty.
Quite obviously, the chap in the Motor factors supplying it has re-issued me an empty by mistake.
Quite obviously, in my innocence, I failed to check it at the shop.

So before going back to the stockist, can anyone tell me what sort of top seal I ought to expect to be on a Southwest gas bottle, please?

And how would I check a bottle is actually full?
I had thought that a liquid would shake but a compressed gas like argon would not. Hence just accepting the bottle.

As you can probably guess, I am new to TIGing and went via the rent free route rather than adding to my BOC account for the MIG.

Bit of a pain but you could take your reg with you and connect it up in shop. If they have had the bottles for a while and there is the slightest leak then at 300 bar it will soon leak away. I had a Ar/CO2 mix bottle to try it (instead of the usual CO2 for mig) and where I would normally just leave the reg on bottle and even turned on for log periods, days even with no problem as the CO2 is at a much lower pressure but the AR/CO2 must have found a slight leak at 300 bar and so lost most of gas! Went back to CO2, less hassle.

 

[mike 109444]

ps Once you get your new bottle do a check on how well it seals on your reg using some soapy water all round connections. Remember to turn off bottle when you go to lunch/quit for day cos again at 300 bar any leak will empty the bottle in no time.

 

[Paul99]

ps Once you get your new bottle do a check on how well it seals on your reg using some soapy water all round connections. Remember to turn off bottle when you go to lunch/quit for day cos again at 300 bar any leak will empty the bottle in no time.

Just a note to keep in mind South West fill their bottles to 200bar rather than 300bar but otherwise spot on.

 

[Splatterer]

Sorted.
I phoned them first thing and they admitted a Doh! moment.
Apparently the old cylinders are stored next to the new ones at the main depot in Chester and being a motor factors rather than a gas suppliers, they just didn't realise, and neither did I.
So yes, all SWGs cylinders should come with a hard, clear shrink wrap around the valve.

Many thanks for all your posts. The cylinder is firmly off. Why?...

The occasional dislexia which read the following tiny print in the Parweld operators manual about 5 times as....
Connect the TIG torch to the -terminal and the work lead to the +

So, I misread the - as part of the T, lost the second 'the' completely and connected the 'TIG torch and it's work lead' to the positive.
Melted the front end of the torch.
A search on this forum soon provided better worded setup instructions.

 

[gaz_moose]

I had the same problem with my local south west gas supplier. don't use ptfe tape as the seal should be formed by the taper. if you have ptfe in the thread scrape it out.

 

[Splatterer]

The ptfe is in the neck of the bottle on the high pressure side between cylinder and the high pressure valve. Not on the thread to the regulator.
I think it potentially unwise to start scraping the bottle join.

It was like that on both bottles so I presume it to be a SW gas thing.

 

[Agautosport]

Tape

I had the same problem with my local south west gas supplier. don't use ptfe tape as the seal should be formed by the taper. if you have ptfe in the thread scrape it out.

The "PTFE " tape being mentioned is actually an Oxygen compatible tape that we import from the USA , we do not use ptfe tape because of the potential for accident if it was used to seal a valve in an Oxygen cylinder .
For the unaware , if you use normal ptfe tape in an Oxygen installation the high pressure oxygen can make normal ptfe tape combust , leading to an Oxygen fire, which is a scary thing to deal with !!

You should not use any tape on the regulator , the seal is made at the end of the regulator, not on the thread .

All of our cylinders are sealed with a plastic heatshrink cover with the exception of Oxygen and our new replacement for Acetylene ( Pro Fuel ) ,
both of these products have a screw in bung . ( we are reluctant to apply heat to either Oxygen or Pro Fuel cylinders )

Alan
Southwest Gas Supplies Ltd

 

[AndyStobbs]

Out of interest splatter, which motor factors have you used? CES?
I only ask because general traffic here in ellesmere port have been trying to get me to use them for welding gasses, I wonder how the price compares?

 

[Wendelspanswick]

The "PTFE " tape being mentioned is actually an Oxygen compatible tape that we import from the USA , we do not use ptfe tape because of the potential for accident if it was used to seal a valve in an Oxygen cylinder .
For the unaware , if you use normal ptfe tape in an Oxygen installation the high pressure oxygen can make normal ptfe tape combust , leading to an Oxygen fire, which is a scary thing to deal with !!

You should not use any tape on the regulator , the seal is made at the end of the regulator, not on the thread .

All of our cylinders are sealed with a plastic heatshrink cover with the exception of Oxygen and our new replacement for Acetylene ( Pro Fuel ) ,
both of these products have a screw in bung . ( we are reluctant to apply heat to either Oxygen or Pro Fuel cylinders )

Alan
Southwest Gas Supplies Ltd

What's 'Pro Fuel' and how much does it cost?

 

[mike 109444]

Sorted.
I phoned them first thing and they admitted a Doh! moment.
Apparently the old cylinders are stored next to the new ones at the main depot in Chester and being a motor factors rather than a gas suppliers, they just didn't realise, and neither did I.
So yes, all SWGs cylinders should come with a hard, clear shrink wrap around the valve.

Many thanks for all your posts. The cylinder is firmly off. Why?...

The occasional dislexia which read the following tiny print in the Parweld operators manual about 5 times as....
Connect the TIG torch to the -terminal and the work lead to the +

So, I misread the - as part of the T, lost the second 'the' completely and connected the 'TIG torch and it's work lead' to the positive.
Melted the front end of the torch.
A search on this forum soon provided better worded setup instructions.

Because the reg to bottle fitting may well be 99.9% but that 0.1% will over time at 200 or more empty the bottle. You don't have to spanner the valve closed just make sure you shut it down. Regs may also bleed a very small amount (depending on quality of reg).

 

[Splatterer]

Out of interest splatter, which motor factors have you used? CES?
I only ask because general traffic here in ellesmere port have been trying to get me to use them for welding gasses, I wonder how the price compares?

I used The Quality Factor in the same road.
TQF were more expensive on the gas than CES, but cheaper on the deposit.

Hi to Cheshire. By the way.

 

[Agautosport]

I don't believe CES sell gas , our distributors are The Quality Factor and General Traffic.

"Pro Fuel" is our replacement for Acetylene , contact your local distributor for pricing ( All are listed on the Southwest Gas Supplies website )

 

[AndyStobbs]

I used The Quality Factor in the same road.
TQF were more expensive on the gas than CES, but cheaper on the deposit.

Hi to Cheshire. By the way.

I see, thanks. I've got an account with TQF, will have to compare them to GT for the gasses.
I live in Little Sutton, technically Cheshire but closer to the Wirral really.

 

[dannyp]

I would HIGHLY recomend southwest gas supplys,

as said cyls are sealed with heatshrink plastic, the o2 ones have bungs in them.

i've not had any sealing issues with any of there bottels infact there bottels are all very tidy and in very good condition.

the pro fuel is propeylene ( think thats right ) used it a bit and it's good stuff, diffrent but good stuff. works best with a propane nozzel but it's a lot better than propane more heat there and it's much more forgiving of mixture when adjusting the flame and generaly better to use

keep meaning to get a cylinder of it for myself and upgrade from propane

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Can you weld with 'Pro Fuel' or is it heating and cutting only?

 

[AndyStobbs]

Can you weld with 'Pro Fuel' or is it heating and cutting only?

The leaflet I read seemed to suggest lower flame temp. 2900 c comes to mind but don't quote me on that.

 

[dannyp]

ive mostly used it for heating and cutting, have done a bit of brazeing with it.

not actualy tryed to weld anything with it yet, need to find some nossels for the torch and see what happens on some scrap, got a feeling it'll work but no real need to gas weld