Hot riveting & hot bending theory videos

[Thrashsmith]

I am working on this Art Nouveau/Industrial gate design which is full of rivets and upset end finials. I've used it as a vehicle to produce a few videos, mainly on riveting, but also accurate bending of steel around jigs. The videos are very much intended for newbies and hobbyists looking for some general info, the videos aren't slick by any means but they hopefully contain some useful theory/techniques. The gate itself is almost irrelevant and if nothing else, you can enjoy watching me struggle.
I am self taught and I've never done this before so any viewers are effectively learning at the same pace as me. I don't know if my methods are "industry standard", but regardless, what I'm doing is working and should work for others. My setups are very low rent and duplicateable, (if that's a word?), I don't have any specialist gear other than an oxy propane gas torch and MIG welder.
There will be a video of collar making using my very basic adjustable jig under my flypress (this jig can also be used on an anvil, for those without a flypress) when I get to the collaring stage.
Hopefully these are of use to someone...

Trial and error figuring out rivet tail lengths:

Riveting setups and heating rivets:

Cold riveting small rivets:

Upset finials and bending using jigs:

 

[Wendelspanswick]

I enjoyed the video, thank you.
Another reason for heating the whole rivet before inserting and setting is that as the rivet cools it contracts and forms a tight joint. If you heat just the end you are going to set you also heat the surrounding work piece and as they both contract as they cool you end up with loose joints.

 

[Thrashsmith]

I watched some vids of the pros doing it & they oversize the hole by about 1mm to allow for the rivet size expansion when hot outta the forge, and they pre-heat the hole before putting the rivet in so the heat-sink is reduced. I didn't oversize my holes (as the actor said to the bishop) so I'm hoping the fits are super duper tight.

 

[optima21]

thanks for sharing, back in the day when I was doing model engineering I had the same problem with working out the rivet lengths to form the head, except the rivets were a little bit smaller with the maximum size being 1/16" and they were worked cold.

Let's hope your customers appreciate the time and effort going into making the gates.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Most of the times when I used rivet they were for decorative use only but I did alot of park/estate railings* where the flats were riveted together to join the ends, this was all done in situ on site during the install.
The ends were held together with bolts and wing nuts until we were ready to rivet, the holes had to be oversize as you wouldn't get the hot rivet in as it expands when heated, nothing worse than trying to put a hot rivet in and it sticking half way and going cold.
Not sure on the advice about heating the surrounding metal, I was taught by a Master blacksmith and I myself got to Journeyman blacksmith after my apprenticeship and that contradicts all we were taught about riveting, the rivet needs to be hot and the workpiece cold.

*Railings where the uprights were 40 x 12 flat and were punched to take 3 horizontals of 25 x 5 flat and a top horizontal of 16mm round. Did hundreds of meters of it at one stage.

 

[Thrashsmith]

Not sure on the advice about heating the surrounding metal, I was taught by a Master blacksmith and I myself got to Journeyman blacksmith after my apprenticeship and that contradicts all we were taught about riveting, the rivet needs to be hot and the workpiece cold.

I can see both logics so am of the general opinion that if it works, it works & if it works then that's good enough.
I've got a "friend" on Instagram who specializes in hot riveting & he suggested I pre-heat the hole too. Like I say I've never done this before so I'm far from being an authority on the subject.
I've been sending the vids to the client too for their general interest. I think their Dad was an engineer so they have a degree of understanding of the processes. I did a video on testing the gate swing in the workshop. It works nice but did reveal a tiny problem with the hinge plate bolt hole locations, which is easily rectifyable. (spelling?)

 

[Wendelspanswick]

Thinking about it another reason we wouldn't have preheated the railings is that they were already painted and the heat would have bubbled the paint work, the method we used the damage to the paint from the hot rivet itself was minimal and just the rivet heads needed touching up.

 

[steve t]

we used to leave something like one and a half times the diameter of the rivet sticking out for a rough and ready guide, keep us updated, thanks

 

[Sean]

we used to leave something like one and a half times the diameter of the rivet sticking out for a rough and ready guide, keep us updated, thanks

Thats what we got taught at school too, Im old enough that being taught how to rivet, use a file or wood chisel was still considered important

 

[dave_s]

Not sure on the advice about heating the surrounding metal, I was taught by a Master blacksmith and I myself got to Journeyman blacksmith after my apprenticeship and that contradicts all we were taught about riveting, the rivet needs to be hot and the workpiece cold.

I always wondered about the two schools of thought. Good to hear that one has some heritage

 

[Thrashsmith]

I always wondered about the two schools of thought. Good to hear that one has some heritage

Not that I'm overly upset if it is, but is that a sideways dig at my lack of heritage via my self taught means? Or have I misunderstood what you were saying?

 

[dave_s]

Far from it, sorry if it seems otherwise

 

[Thrashsmith]

No appology required, I obviously didn't follow your exact meaning.

 

[Thrashsmith]

Adjustable collar jig making video:

Finished installing yesterday but waiting for other renovation works to finish before taking proper pics. Blasted, zinc flame sprayed, RAL 7016 vinyl top coat. I would have preferred a lighter shade of grey but its the client's money.

 

[Fintray]

That's a really nice gate into which has gone a lot of hard work.

 

[steve t]

loving all the rivets, time consuming but worth it

 

[Thrashsmith]

A longer version of my adjustable collar making jigs with a bit of explanation of use. Useful for far more than collars. Directions for collar making use in description.

 

[laserhalen]

That is beautiful, well done mate and to your helper too of course.